Episode 285: Hera
/As queen of the Olympians, Hera gets a bit of a bad reputation. But we’re here to tell you that not all of her stories focus on revenge and toxic relationships. She deserves some love too!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of misogyny, sexual assault, cheating/extramarital affairs, toxic relationships, childbirth, labor, premature birth, infertility, child endangerment, animal death, mental illness, animal sacrifice, and murder.
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Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learned about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this Episode 285: Hera. Closing down the end of our It's All Greek To Me series, Jules.
Julia: We are we're getting close to the end and I felt like saving Hera for close to last felt right, you know?
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Because we started with Zeus, right?
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: And it feels right to kind of finish out with the queen.
Amanda: Love it. That's the one thing I know about her I think is that you know, Zeus' wife, bad bitch and I'm looking forward to learning more.
Julia: I was gonna ask what you– what you thought about her or what you knew about her. But you didn't you did cover the bases. So I always appreciate you pre-empting my question.
Amanda: Always learning, no vacation, Julia.
Julia: There we go. So yeah, Hera, or it could also be pronounced Hera, both are correct. She is the goddess of women, marriage, family, and childbirth, and like you said, is the wife of Zeus. So I feel like to kind of set the tone. I'm going to quote our girl Edith Hamilton because I think she really sums it up really well, the way that the myths choose to portray Hera, which is quote, "There is very little that is attractive in the portrait the poets draw of her when any account gets down to the details, it shows her chiefly engaged in punishing the many women Zeus fell in love with even when they yielded only because he coerced or tricked them."
Amanda: Hmm. I mean, it's a fair observation from what it sounds like.
Julia: It is, and I feel like you know, Edith Hamilton, an expert in her field, certainly, and also knows, like, hey, sometimes the poets are meaner to some gods than they are to other gods.
Amanda: Totally.
Julia: And we'll talk about this a little bit more when we do poetry corner at the end because the poems and the hymns and the odes to her are very complementary, but then we get into the actual canon of the mythology, it is very unflattering. And we could talk about why that is, I guess a little bit later. But let's learn a little bit more and that'll color our thoughts on the process, right?
Amanda: Totally.
Julia: So in my mind, making Hara the patron of marriage and married women seems like, kind of like a cruel joke in Greek mythology because her most defining stories like Edith pointed out all focused around her jealousy of Zeus' many, many affairs and the children that he had from those affairs. And a lot of time though, we talk about this kind of extremely toxic marriage between Zeus and Hera. But we very rarely talk about how they became married. And a lot of the poets tend to kind of skip over this like it's the classic story, Zeus frees his siblings from the stomach of Cronus. They fight the Titans, the Olympians triumph, Zeus takes the throne on Olympus, and then he marries Hera. But there are a couple of stories of how they kind of came together and became husband and wife.
Amanda: Sounds like a good place to start as any.
Julia: I agree because like we said, her relationship with Zeus very much colors how the poets see her so. So the Iliad mentions that their marriage was at first, like a secret and that the two of them eloped without the other gods knowing it first, which I think is like kind of fun and a little bit different than what we see otherwise. And there are like, other stories where it's like, no, no, everyone knew about that wedding and people came to that wedding and there were gifts and feasting and whatnot and we'll get to that. But I do like this kind of like, oh, they were just like, you know, either Zeus seduced her or she seduced Zeus and then it was a whole thing where like, they were just like, in a mountain together, having just had sex and they were like, well, we're just gonna get married now.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: There is another story though, which I think is particularly fun. And there's two versions of the story. So the first Zeus transformed into a cuckoo bird, which is classic Zeus turning into a bird. It's one of his favorite moves. And when he attempted to woo Hera in this form, she instead caught the bird and kept it as her pet until Zeus transformed back to reveal it was him all along.
Amanda: That's a badass move. I'm into it.
Julia: And then the other story, that features this cuckoo bird involves Hera like basically traveling across Greece alone, and Zeus creates this giant thunderstorm that makes her have to take shelter. And then again, he transforms into this cuckoo bird and he flies into her lap, and when she sees him there, she like does the nice thing and she covers the bird with her cloak in order to protect it from the storm and then that's when Zeus transforms back into his true form embraces her and she agrees to marry him.
Amanda: I mean, I'm trying to think about this in a rom com situation and you know, kind of like false pretenses seeking shelter, you know? From the elements in a storm, we call that forced proximity.
Julia: It's cute.
Amanda: Like it's a meet cute. I see it.
Julia: It's the ancient Greek version of oh, there's only one bed.
Amanda: It is indeed Julia. It is indeed.
Julia: I love that.
Amanda: Snowstorm. One room left in the motel, come on, we all know and love it.
Julia: And I think that like these two stories are like somewhat romantic in a way in a way that a lot of the later stories that we're going to tell are not very romantic at all.
Amanda: I'll try to keep this image in mind as we proceed through this big canon.
Julia: It started out okay, it turned out bad. That's kind of what happens here.
Amanda: I'm just gonna emotionally prepare myself. Okay, I'm prepared.
Julia: Great. So the poet Callimachus actually claims that like I was saying before in the stories were their wedding was not a elopement, their wedding feast supposedly went on for 3000 YEARS!
Amanda: Expensive. That's a lot of wine.
Julia: It is. It's a lot of wine. It's a lot of food.
Amanda: Can you tell I'm planning a wedding?
Julia: So much ambrosia. You know how much it cost Amanda to get a good ambrosia dealer to come to your wedding?
Amanda: Ugh! There's minimums, there's an ambrosia dealer, you have to use. Oh, god.
Julia: God just- just the worst. The Golden Apples of the Hesperides, which you'll remember is one of the labors of Heracles which we'll also talk a little bit about later, but that was said to be one of their wedding gifts which was given to them by Gaia. There's also another story where like some nymph either decided not to show up or was rude at their wedding. And then she got turned into some kind of animal I can't remember which.
Amanda: I like the phrase some nymph as well, that feels like a completely fair and just descriptive. But I can also see a bunch of nymphs in the bathroom just being like, "Ugh some nymph is wearing the same dress as me."
Julia: That's some real like, Met Gala, everyone's hanging out in the bathroom imagery and I appreciate that.
Amanda: Yeah, Julia, for the first time in many years, I was a little tipsy at a wine bar recently, and another girl like leaned forward and was like, "Your skin is so nice." And I was like, "Thank you so much."
Julia: I mean, she's not wrong.
Amanda: I was, thank you. But I was just like, on the verge of tears immediately. I was like, I missed this interaction!
Julia: I love when drunk women compliment me. It's so nice. That's all I've ever wanted. I was at a restaurant and also a little tipsy the other week, and I called a waitress over to us and Jake was like, "That's not our waitress. Don't talk to her." I'm like, "No, no, I was just like, I just want to compliment her earrings because they're really cute. And I noticed them from across the room." and Jake's like, "You're so strange." I'm like, "No, you don't understand. This is like a normal like woman to woman reaction."
Amanda: It is a normal interaction. And I'm sure for her it was the double whammy of this person doesn't actually need anything from me and just wanted to give me a compliment and I can like spend a couple minutes not pouring water for people who don't appreciate me.
Julia: Exactly, exactly. As a person who did serving, I understand how nice it is to have someone break up the monotony and the chaos of the day.
Amanda: Totally.
Julia: Besides that kind of, I guess, nice part of their marriage, the poet's were not particularly kind to Hera in the stories, but they did give her several epithets that are worth noting and also were fairly kind most of the time. Like I said, they're very complimentary in the actual poems themselves about the stories. So she was Ἀκραῖα (Akráia) or '(She) of the Heights' or Βασίλεια (Basíleia) or 'Queen', Ἄνθεια (Antheia), or 'flowery', which I really like. She was also Λευκώλενος (Leukṓlenos) or 'White-Armed' and then my favorite, Βοῶπις (Boṓpis) 'Cow-Eyed' or 'Cow-Faced',
Amanda: Oh. In a nice way?
Julia: In a nice way.
Amanda: Like, big blinking eyes?
Julia: Yes, like big, beautiful dark eyes is the way that it's kind of described, and then a lot of art to you see that kind of imagery as well. Actually, I'll send you a reference, which I will also link in the show notes for our patrons.
Amanda: Okay, I see. I mean, I guess people say doe-eyed and it's not that different.
Julia: Obviously, they had deer in Ancient Greece, but also cows were super important and also very important to Hera, which is also what this is a reference to. So not only was she cow-eyed in a beautiful way, also, it was a reference to her pre-Olympic worship, which she was sent to be tied to cattle in her worship in Cyprus and Boya. An archaeologist have actually found like bull skulls at the sites of her worship, some of which they think were used as masks, which I think is also very cool and awesome image.
Amanda: That's awesome. Julia, yet another thing that hipster is in Austin, Texas and ancient Greeks have in common use of bull skulls into core.
Julia: That is true, and I feel like not only hipsters, also people who are ranchers by trade.
Amanda: Also ranchers, but I have definitely heard of like, oh, this like this is just some cow skull and someone's like selling it for $1,000 in an antique store to a hipster and chortling you know, like behind their hand. So in both ways.
Julia: True, totally, totally true.
Amanda: Work that economy, ranchers work that economy.
Julia: So bulls, extremely important to her. Also, some scholars tie her worship to the worship of Hathor in Ancient Egypt, who you also might remember is a goddess who is associated not only with cows but also childbirth, which is important because we're going to talk about childbirth a little bit later. But in regards as well to her pre-Greek origins, it is more than likely that Hera's worship actually predated the Crete Greek worship of Zeus and that some scholars believe that we actually don't have a record of her originally worshipped name and that Hera was a title that literally translates to Lady or mistress.
Amanda: Hmm, fascinating.
Julia: Which I love the idea that she has like some unknown name to us that her name is lost to time. So speaking of childbirth, one of Hera's children by Zeus is Eileithyia, which is also another title. Sometimes the Greeks decide this is a separate person, or sometimes it's a title of one of the goddesses. So this is a title that is sometimes associated with Hera, but also in a lot of myths is a separate goddess who is supposed to be the daughter of Hera. So she's the goddess of childbirth, and together there are many stories in which Hera impacted the birth of other gods goddesses and demigods. So we've talked about the birth of Apollo and Artemis before with Leto and Hera refused to let her be born on any island, so Poseidon raised an island out of the sea for her, and then she even went so far as to prevent her daughter from going to Leto, which prevented her from actually giving birth. So she was just kind of stuck in the labor process, which feels like the worst part to be in.
Amanda: Yeah, even pre-labor. From what I understand that people who've given birth, like those last few weeks are just like, Good God, get me out of here.
Julia: Get it out of here, please come on.
Amanda: This baby's fully baked. Let's get her out of there.
Julia: So it wasn't until the goddess Iris who's the one of the messenger goddesses was sent to bring Eileithyia despite Hera's objections. And once Eileithyia stepped foot on the island of Delos, Leto was able to kind of begin the actual birthing process.
Amanda: Thank God.
Julia: Yes, good for her. Similarly, Hera delayed the birth of Heracles by sitting at the door to the birthing room so that no one could enter including her own daughter.
Amanda: Damn, I mean, I can't imagine your whole thing being preventing pregnant people who desperately want to give birth and giving birth.
Julia: So again, this kind of falls into this category of Hera does not enjoy Zeus having extramarital affairs.
Amanda: Sure.
Julia: And two, like being one-upped by Zeus.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: In the story of Heracles. We'll talk a little bit about the details later. But basically, there is a proclamation that Zeus makes that he brags on the day that Heracles is supposed to be born that a child he sired would be born and would rule all those around him.
Amanda: Okay, Julia, one of our formative childhood memories that we share was doing a production of Macbeth. And Julia, how does Macbeth begin? begins with-
Julia: Where-
Amanda: -a bunch of- Oh, yeah, nothing. Excellent, you're prepared. But the whole opening gambit of Macbeth is that there is a proclamation saying your children will be kings, and then people get themselves killed over the pursuit of that proclamation. Not a good idea. It's- it's man's folly. When you declare it, bad shit happens. Just, just don't.
Julia: Yeah, just don't declare things just like, you know, let things happen.
Amanda: Write it in your journal.
Julia: I don't say opinions on the internet anymore. Because I feel like somewhere down the line, that thing is going to become bad. And then I'm also going to be a bad person because I said a nice thing about it.
Amanda: Listen, Eric Schneider for years has just deleted his tweets once a year all tweets older than a year deleted. It's a great idea
Julia: Smart.
Amanda: But especially in a world where you can say like, oh, hoho, I bet you're prettier than Aphrodite. No, ma'am. No, thank you. Oh, hello. Hello. I'm going to have a child by someone I'm not married to and that child's going to be a king. No, sir. No, please.
Julia: Listen. There's a reason. The Greeks have a word for the thing that we're describing here and we still use it.
Amanda: They sure do. We sure do.
Julia: It's hubris, baby!
Amanda: It's hubris.
Julia: So Zeus does this big brag. Hera makes him swear an oath, that that will be true. And then she descends down to Argos so that your Eurystheus, so that her like protege, this guy named Eurystheus, who would become the Mycenaean King later, would be born earlier, like two months early, so that Zeus would be wrong and Hercules wouldn't fall under that oath.
Amanda: Oh my god, fabulous.
Julia: That's just wild. There's– there's like a like premature birth. There is stopping someone from being born there is an oath, there is a proclamation there's so many things happening in that story.
Amanda: Incredible, Julia, I have just really kind of King of Queen vibes during this whole episode. My grandfather loved that show. And I never really watched it much but to be it's kind of emblematic of the sort of sitcom like, "My wife!" you know, sort of energy and that's what I'm really getting out of a lot of these stories is like we've all been in that position where you're fighting with a partner or somebody and they're like, oh, yeah, and you're like, "Yeah!" and you double down on the thing that maybe in the back of your mind, you know, is wrong that's what Zeus did in swearing that oath and Hera's like excellent right to plan I know exactly what has to happen here.
Julia: Amanda, you know that phrase, which is comedy is just tragedy plus time.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: Are all Greek tragedies just now comedies because enough time has passed.
Amanda: I think when you summarize them and don't dwell in the bad outcomes, absolutely.
Julia: Yes. Now I can't get the picture of the sitcom couple, Hera and Zeus out of my head. How dare you do this to me?
Amanda: I'm just saying, I'm just saying if Wandavision like doubled down and goes back even further in time, it's worth considering.
Julia: Oh, my goodness. Okay. Well, speaking of their like, very much sitcom relationship, we should talk about their children.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: So Hera had other children besides Ilithyia, and almost all of them were by Zeus, though I mentioned you know, in the Hephaestus episode, she did bear some children of her own as revenge for Zeus giving birth to Athena on his own. So we've already mentioned Aries and Hephaestus. Of course, their other daughters include Hebe, who is the goddess of youth, she is the child of Zeus, but in another version of the story, instead, she was produced by Hera becoming impregnated after eating some lettuce.
Amanda: Um. Just let us look like sperm or am I just missing something?
Julia: I don't think lettuce looks like sperm. But apparently, this is because lettuce was connected to both sexual impotency in ancient Greece. Plutarch literally says that women should never eat the heart of a lettuce.
Amanda: Oh my god, Julia, have we discovered the origins of why salad has become feminized? Why women laughing alone with salad is like a thing.
Julia: Maybe.
Amanda: Maybe the Greek said you're gonna be impotent if you eat lettuce, men.
Julia: You might be, you might be! women never eat the heart of lettuce. You will never have kids.
Amanda: Why? No, it's tender.
Julia: Yeah, no, it's nice. Also, like Plutarch believes this but also other Greek scholars were like, lettuce actually helps with menstrual flow and lactation for pregnant people. So you guys should eat some lettuce. And it became associated with pregnancy and motherhood.
Amanda: I mean, everyone should eat lettuce. Lettuce is a fine vegetable. If you like it, eat it if you don't, don't, don't let gender get in the way.
Julia: Yeah, and I mean, like scientists prove me wrong if I'm wrong, but I don't think lettuce actually does help with lactation.
Amanda: I don't think there's anything around kind of Folic Acid though. I do know that pregnancy can really do a lot for your digestive system in terms of like messing it all up. All that stuff in there just gets compressed and there's like a human being just like, weigh in on it.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: So I mean, roughage is good. I think for most people most of the time.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. I know that. Like, you can get real plugged up while-
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -you're pregnant. Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's the lettuce. Your mileage may vary.
Julia: So that's, that's Hebe. She's the goddess of youth. I love that for her. So there is also Eleutheria who is the embodiment of liberty.
Amanda: Wow. Is she a wild child, doing whatever he wanted?
Julia: I guess so. I feel like it was more like the Yeah, yeah, no, that feels right. I just like being-
Amanda: That's more of rebelliousness. But you know?
Julia: Yes. But I like the like, I you people, you can do whatever you want. It's your choice.
Amanda: Oh, I was picturing like, Rizzo in Grease.
Julia: Yes, their daughter was Stockard Channing.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: They're also had it kind of in the opposite, or actually probably closer to what we're talking about. Eris is the goddess of discord and is also said to be one of the daughters of Zeus and Hera.
Amanda: Nice.
Julia: We've mentioned the Graces before, the goddesses who are the embodiment of grace and beauty, in some versions told by the poets they are the daughters of Hera with no father mentioned. And there is also Angelos, who is a goddess of the underworld actually, and only mentioned in one surviving text.
Amanda: Hmm. I'm intrigued.
Julia: Which I love a goddess who is very exclusive.
Amanda: Very true.
Julia: In that surviving text. In that story, she assisted the princess, Europa by stealing Hera's anointment and giving them to the fleeing princess. So obviously that does not make Hera happy and that her own daughter would do such a thing terrible so Angelos hides from her mother's wrath to kind of escape it and eventually when Hera's rage had dwindled, which you'll learn takes a while. We'll talk about this more in another story, but it takes a while for her to not be mad anymore. She holds a grudge. Zeus eventually has Angelos cleansed in the waters of the underworld because either Hera's rage like marked her or the fact that she turned on another goddess marked her. And so when she is cleansed in those waters of the underworld, she chose to remain there and that became her domain.
Amanda: Right now.
Julia: And this story is also sometimes tied to the birth of Hecate, but the scholars are not sure whether or not they're the same goddess.
Amanda: Anybody who sort of goes down to the underworld and thinks that it's better and stays, that's such like a queer moment to me where you're like, "I don't belong here. You don't want me anyway, I'm gonna go down there a place that you think is depraved and it's actually filled with people who get me" and I love that for her.
Julia: I do. I love that for her as well. Hey, the underworld not so bad. Most people end up there.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: , I think it's important to note that Hera is presented as the mother of the monstrous serpent, Typhon. This is another instance where Hera is like said to be jealous of Zeus because Zeus had given birth to Athena and so prayed to Gaia, who is the embodiment of the earth that she would have a son that was as strong as Zeus. And then she slapped the earth and became pregnant.
Amanda: Dang.
Julia: And then when she gave birth, it was to the serpent Typhon. And she gave him to another monstrous serpent Python to raise
Amanda: Alright. I mean, good. I think that's a good idea to be sure your kids with someone who will get them.
Julia: Exactly, exactly. And I don't think that the rest of the Olympians would have been super stoked about giant snake hanging around.
Amanda: No, no, I think that would have just escalated somehow.
Julia: So we will chat a little bit more about how Hera was worshipped and some of her other stories but just as soon as we get back from our refill.
[midroll]
Amanda: Julia, midroll time!
Julia: Oh, hey, Amanda. I have snacks. So whenever we go out and we get a cheese board, I get the cheese part. You get the accouterments, but I found these really, really good Rosemary crackers that I think we both can enjoy.
Amanda: Yes, Julia. I'm reading a sapphic romance right now about a chef and the manager of a restaurant. And their first like scene of oh, we might be interested in each other with over vegan poutine I'm just like, I want it. I want it real bad.
Julia: You do need to drop the name for that one, please.
Amanda: This is The Romance Recipe by Ruby Barrett.
Julia: Oooh! I love it. So that's incredible. And you know what else is like dessert to see when I open my email?
Amanda: Is it the names of people who joined our Patreon over the last few days?
Julia: Yeah, of course. It's Lisa, Emma, SassySamwise, Genevieve, and Crystal.
Amanda: Samwise is so sassy. That's a really good name.
Julia: That is true. He is po-tay-toes.
Amanda: We would also love to thank the vegan cheese curds to our potatoes our supporting producer level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Froody Chick, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Lily, Little Vomit Spiders Running Around, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi and those legend level patrons Arianna, Audra, Bex, Clara, Iron Havoc, Morgan, Mother of Vikings, Sarah, & Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: Oh, man, if I had a recipe to make a wonderful patrons legend-level patrons, I would never reveal it because it would be my specialty.
Amanda: I love that. And if you want to join our Patreon to get six years worth of bonus materials, I'm not joking, folks. It would take you a long time to go through it all go to patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Your support helps this independent podcast be a thing and we so appreciate it.
Julia: Now, Amanda, I know you already told me a fantastic book that you're reading. I want to tell you about a fantastic book that I just finished.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: Which is Under the Whispering Door by TJ Klune.
Amanda: Ooh!
Julia: It is very emotional. There is a like content warning at the beginning of the book that they're very good about it does like talk a lot about death. And it's about a man who has died who is now in kind of a waystation before he passes on and falls in love with the person who is there to like help him move on and it's very sweet.
Amanda: Stop! So sweet!
Julia: I know it was so good. It's also very queer. So get on that I know you guys are gonna love it. Check it out.
Amanda: Oh my god. Amazing. We also have two very exciting updates for all of you about what's going on here with Spirits and with Multitude. So first of all, you can get a chibi Mothman sticker.
Julia: So cute!
Amanda: The first of our sticker of the Month Club. Gosh, we are so excited about it so amazing at spiritspodcast.com/merch where you can also pick up a copy of our tarot deck. We are getting them reprinted they're gonna be in stock so soon but to make sure we get the right amount we're letting y'all pre-order it because last time you bought them all before we could pull it on the podcast practically.
Julia: That's true!
Amanda: So tarot deck, chibi Mothman to put on your water bottle, or your binder or your laptop or whatever the heck you want.
Julia: Or your wall of stickers.
Amanda: Your wall stickers, exactly. spiritspodcast.com/merch.
Amanda: Now, man, we also have some exciting stuff happening at Multitude which includes a new show at Multitude!
Amanda: Yes, to continue the kitchen metaphor, it's been in the oven for several months, and now it is ready to go. It's been cooled and frosted, and it's ready for you to eat. This is called Games and Feelings. It's an advice podcast all about games. Question keeper of the show but also my heart, Eric Silver, and a revolving cast of guests are going to answer your questions at the intersection of fun and humanity because we play games, but you play games with other people. And so I'm surprised there isn't a show like this already and now it exists and it's on Multitude. And I'm so excited.
Julia: Yeah. And it's not just like video games, which video games are great and we love video games, but it's also like tabletop games, party games, laser tag, escape rooms, game streams, D&D podcast, the companies and workers that make those games anything you can think of.
Amanda: Exactly. I am on one of the first two episodes which were already released so you can already stream two episodes. Julia, may or may not be in an upcoming episode and lots of your other faves from Multitude and games internet. I promise you whether you're asking like what makes a video game cozy? I've heard of that. Like, what does that mean? Or you know, hey, I want to plan a date. Isn't escape room a good third date? Or am I coming on too strong? Whatever your questions are, you can submit them, you can hear them games and feelings is the name of the show. It comes up every other Friday. And if you want to level up your emotional intelligence, stat, subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts.
Julia: Check it out!
Amanda: We are sponsored this week, Julia by one of my favorite browser extensions. And you might be thinking to yourself, it's weird to have a favorite browser extension. Or you might be thinking, I have one too. In both cases, I have great news for you, which is that you can put a browser extension on your web browser and raise money for charity while you just do your thing online. Tab for a Cause is fabulously been a longtime partner of ours. And whenever you open a new tab, they show you a beautiful photo, a small ad and revenue from that ad goes toward a charity of your choice. And you can join Team Spirits and help us help the world and raise money for charity while just browsing the internet. You should.
Julia: Yeah, so join Team Spirits by signing up at tabforacause.org/spirits. If you're like me, and you're a chaotic demon that has so many tabs open all the time, you're going to be doing it for a good cause. Tab for a Cause.
Amanda: Exactly like, I will open this tab because you know what? I'm helping out the world and I'm helping Team Spirits to raise money.
Julia: That's true.
Amanda: That's tabforacause.org/spirits.
Julia: Amanda, I have been trying to discover new restaurants in my new town. And I feel like it's really hard to do other than like, Oh, no going and like driving around until I see a restaurant that I think would probably be good and just being like, Well, okay, I guess we'll try it. But one of the things that I like to do before we venture out into the car for no reason is to open up my DoorDash app and see what restaurants are around and you know, get it delivered because we're working to remodel a house right now and I don't have time to go out and get food and groceries and stuff like that and that's where DoorDash comes in. So you can get what you want to eat right now and right to your door with DoorDash. And along with restaurants that you love or are getting to know you can get groceries and other essential items delivered through DoorDash. So you can get drinks or snacks or other household items in under an hour and they have over 300,000 partners and you can support your neighborhood go twos or you could choose from some of your favorite national restaurants. Jake is very partial to Chipotle, so we ordered Chipotle through DoorDash a lot, and order is super easy. Your items will be left safely outside your door when you choose that contactless delivery drop-off. And for a limited time, our listeners can get 25% off and zero delivery fees on their first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter the code Spirits that's 25% off up to a $10 value and zero delivery fees on your first order when you download the DoorDash app in the App Store and enter the code Spirits don't forget that's code Spirits for 25% off your first order with DoorDash. Subject to change terms apply!
Amanda: Subject to change terms apply. They don't make us say it twice. I just really enjoy it, so...
Julia: Yeah, we just really like saying.
Amanda: And finally, this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life can be overwhelming. We all know this. And a lot of people get burned out without even knowing it that might feel like a lack of motivation if feeling helpless or trapped detachment, fatigue, lots of stuff. And it doesn't always come with work either. It can be social burnout, isolation, burnout, caregiving burnout, there's lots of ways that we can be overcommitted in our life and really just run ourselves ragged. And it's really important that you take some time for yourself to refill your cup as they say that could be private time it could be doing when your favorite activities that could be even just taking a few moments when you wake up to you know, think about something nice or pray or like whatever it is that makes you feel centered, connected a little bit rested. For me, therapy is a big part of how I treat my own burnout and how I treat myself well and I do that through BetterHelp. BetterHelp is customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapists so you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy and you can be matched the therapist in under 48 hours, Spirits listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/spirits. That's BETTER H - E - L - P dot com slash spirits. And now let's get back to the show.
Julia: So in doing my research, Amanda I actually found a mocktail that is based off of Hera. It's called Hera's crown and it is grenadine orange juice, lemon juice and a little bit of club soda. However, I feel like if you wanted to spice that up and maybe add a little bit like whiskey or rum to make it a cocktail, I don't think Hera would object too much.
Amanda: No, I think tequila could also go well in there depending on the kind maybe Blonko a little bit less flavorful.
Julia: Yeah, in my mind, I pictured her as kind of like a brown liquor kind of person but I also think like maybe like a Rosado tequila would be good.
Amanda: I like that I get kind of like Island vibes in turn. have, you know the kind of like calling of the island people can give birth? And I am picturing a sort of arid environment. So I was picturing the agave plant?
Julia: Ooh, yes, no, I like that. I like that a lot. So we're gonna have to talk about Hera and her revenge stories eventually. And unfortunately, a lot of them do have to, like do with her exacting revenge, either against Zeus or the women that he seduces, or assaults or the children that are resulted from that. And unfortunately, like, a lot of times, it's not against Zeus. It's mostly against these women and children and that sucks. But, you know, I can't change the stories that the Greeks told Amanda, I just can't.
Amanda: Just got a report on them.
Julia: Right. And we also we talked a little bit about this in the Zeus story. And I think it's worth mentioning again, that a lot of the reason that Zeus has so many affairs in Greek mythology is because it was a way of incorporating local goddesses that were like smaller to the Pantheon into Greek mythology as a whole. So like by having Zeus wed them or give them children or something to that effect that allowed the Greeks to fold these local goddesses into their own canon and still be like, hey, listen, our Olympians are what you should be worshipping. But we're going to make sense as to why you might also be worshiping what we consider a nymph, or like, you know, a river goddess or something like that.
Amanda: Yeah, stories are rarely without an agenda. And I think it just enriches them and makes them even more interesting and invites nerds like us to think about, you know, character motivation because you have to find a way to bridge all of these things together.
Julia: Yeah. And I think this also might be like a little bit of a propaganda power move to have Hera exact revenge on these other goddesses to make it be clear like, well, Hera is always going to one up you in a way. And if you manage to trick Hera, it will be because Zeus helped you or another god helped you that is from our Pantheon.
Amanda: That's fascinating.
Julia: That's like just something I've been thinking about in doing the research for this. I'm not sure if that's true. And I'm not sure if scholars have written about that. But it is something that I've been thinking a lot about.
Amanda: I think that's really fascinating. And I mean, even if it's not a conscious effort, unconscious bias makes its way through, right? And the people telling the stories of people recording them, people deciding kind of whose festivals and whose narratives get centered and made canonized, have their own thoughts as to what's best.
Julia: Absolutely. I guess that's something that I do want people to keep in mind while we tell these stories, like Hera is not inherently a bad goddess, because the Greeks chose to use her in this way in order to push their agenda for lack of a better phrase.
Amanda: Yeah. And I think it is really, I mean, listen to the English major in me, right? Like you we had exercises all the time where we'd have the same text, and then different groups in the classroom would be assigned biographical criticism, like thinking about how the life of the author influenced what we're reading all kinds of other like genre criticism, all kinds of stuff, close reading, and you know, you take different lenses and you put them on to the story and you decide which one is most fascinating to you. So thinking about Hera as a kind of tool and stand in an avatar for Hellenistic culture, I think is a really fascinating thing to keep in mind as we proceed through perhaps the, you know, less laudable parts of the canon.
Julia: Absolutely. So that kind of brings us to our first story. It's probably one of the more notable hero revenge stories in my mind. And that, of course, is the story of Heracles, whose name literally means glory to Hera, but who Hera definitely wanted nothing to do with.
Amanda: Oh, irony.
Julia: So he was the son of Zeus and Alcmene. Though Zeus had disguised himself as Alcmene's husband in order to sleep with her and Elfman. They didn't realize that this treachery had occurred until her husband returned from war three days later, and he was like, "Hey, I'm back from war." And she's like, "You got back three days ago. What are you talking about?" So regardless, this is another child of Zeus is that was not born of Hera. And so she was understandably upset about that. In one story, Hera was said to have sent witches to stop the birth of Heracles. This is being another different version from the one that I told you earlier. This was basically to keep elk mini in constant labor and also because of that oath and stuff that we had talked about earlier, in this version of the tale. These witches are there to like, stop the birth and eventually this handmaiden of Alcmene, whose name was Galanthis, she was able to trick them into leaving by telling them that like, despite their efforts, she had already given birth. And so the witches were like, "Oh, well, we tried" and just leave and so she's able to actually give birth to Heraclas and for her trickery, Hera transforms Galanthis into a weasel.
Amanda: Ah, damn, I mean, I think there are worse animals to be transformed into, that seems pretty fun.
Julia: Yeah, it's apparently supposed to be like a story so like why weasels have that like brown red fur and it's because glampers had brown red hair, something It's also a cat but I like the weasel better. But of course, you know Heracles being born Hera wasn't like, oh, well, I guess I lost them. No, she kept hating this poor poor baby, and instead her hatred grew more and more over time, so she sent to serpents to bite and kill the baby while he slept. But the superhumanly strong baby Heracles just kills him with his bare hands.
Amanda: Down.
Julia: They find him like in his crib later just like playing with them like toys.
Amanda: Oh yeah.
Julia: The dead snakes, cool. When he grew to become a man Hera drove him to madness which obviously that's not how mental illness works, but sure, fine, Hera whatever. And this leads him to kill his wife and children, which eventually leads to the infamous Labour's which he took up as penance for his crimes.
Amanda: Oh shit, that's long grudge.
Julia: That is a longer edge and it doesn't stop there. Because as we've talked about before, Hera had chosen that Mycenaean King Eurystheus to be her protege and so she tasks Eurystheus to be her mouthpiece in giving Heracles his labors. So she like sends him to Eurystheus and Eurystheus is like, what should I tell him to do? And he was like, here, I got a bunch of cool tasks, cool, impossible tasks for this man to try to accomplish.
Amanda: Gotcha.
Julia: And so even though these are supposed to be impossible tasks, every time Heracles manages to complete them, and so she would make the next task more and more difficult, but Heracles wouldn't fail. He would, in fact, complete all of them. And it was said that actually, the two of them became really close after he managed to complete the labors either because like Hera was begrudgingly like alright, I guess you're okay, but also because Heracles was said to have saved Hera from being assaulted by a giant named Porphyrion and she was said to have adopted him when he became immortal and even gave her daughter Hebe again, the goddess of youth to be his new bride.
Amanda: I mean, a lot of this could have been avoided, but I guess there are worse endings.
Julia: There are. They're certainly worse endings. I like that she kind of like adopts him. She's like, listen, Zeus, my husband-
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -is your dad. And now you're immortal. And you know what? You're gonna be my son.
Amanda: Hara blended family idol?
Julia: Well, given how she acts to the rest of the children/partners of Zeus, I would say no.
Amanda: Alright. Well, that's why the question mark was there, Julia.
Julia: I appreciate the question mark. There are some other stories. Of course, the Heracles is not the only person to get the ire of Hera. There is the story of her interaction with Io, who was a priestess of Hera who Zeus was lusting after the story again varies in most Zeus has sex with her and then transforms Io into a cow in order to hide her from the wrath of Hera. In other versions of the story, Hera transforms Io into a cow in order to hide her from the advances of Zeus. But of course, like Zeus also turns into a cow and manages to find her and the whole thing eventually, regardless of which version it is, Hera has her tied to an olive tree either as punishment or again for protection and puts her under the watchful eyes of Argus who is this like all seeing giant who is covered with 100 eyes and like can basically make sure that no one approaches this cow who's also a lady.
Amanda: Like a weird, sexy Christian angel?
Julia: Yes, but he's just like a dude covered in eyes and not spinning wheels have eyes, which I like spinning wheels have eyes better personally.
Amanda: I think I'll take anthropomorphized form covered in eyes. I think that would freak me out less than the spinning wheel of eyes.
Julia: I suppose. My brain I know what a person looks like.
Amanda: That's true.
Julia: You know, I think my brain would be too confused by the spinning wheel of eyes and so I wouldn't necessarily be horrified. I would just be like, I'm trying to wrap my head around this.
Amanda: Okay, let's compare them that to a sort of like, Mike Wazowski-style Emersonian floating eyeball where Emerson in the tradition of the [39:01] sort of imagined like a disembodied eyeball kind of floating around the city like in but not of the people observing life but not influencing it. What's freakier?
Julia: The latter one that you said. I like Mike Wazowski, I feel like.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: That's just a person but with a big eye.
Amanda: Yeah. Mike without any of the mic wrapping and just eye.
Julia: Yeah, no good. But again, like Mike is not- I can't believe we're talking about Mike Wazowski so much on the podcast, but like Mike is like, he's just not quite person-shaped. He's like I with appendages and that doesn't freak me out as much
Amanda: Yeah. No, you, he makes sense. Yeah. Just the Emersonian eyeball like if you come across just an eyeball on a forest and we're getting into urban legends territory here. That'll be that'd be freaky.
Julia: It would be.
Amanda: I'd be like- [39:44] eyeball, where for?
Julia: Where did you come from and why?
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Okay, so don't with our Mike Wazowski talk.
Amanda: You never know what you're gonna get, people. You might see an episode come into your feed and you think I know the story. No, you don't.
Julia: Hera ties Io to a tree. Argus is watching. Zeus still wants Io really badly either to take her from Hera's imprisonment or because he's still lusting after her. Zeus sends Hermes to kill artists and steals Io away and in her frustration Hera sent gadflies to constantly sting Io, who eventually flees to Egypt and is eventually returned to her human form by Zeus. And that's where she gives birth to their son who becomes one of the kings of Egypt. And that's also why flies are said to bother cows because Hera sent the gadflies after Io.
Amanda: See, that's a myth joy that you can really take home with you. That's a myth that you can count on that can teach you something in the world because I have wondered why the hell are those class so interested in those cows? I know the answer is poop. But come on.
Julia: They're so stanky.
Amanda: They're so stinky.
Julia: Notably, Hera is one of the goddesses who was involved in the judgment of Paris, which we've talked about before. Hara offers Paris political power and control over all of Asia, which is a buckwild thing to promise someone. But as we know, Paris chose Aphrodite as the fairest of the goddesses. And as such, Hera developed a hatred for the Trojans and sided with the Greeks. Now we've like touched on different aspects of the Trojan War before but something I feel like we haven't really talked about is the fact that Zeus decreed that the gods were not allowed to interfere in a war between mortals. Part of this is because he made a promise to Thetis who is the nymph mother of Achilles, but also it's just like, he's like, "Guys, we can't pick sides in a war. Come on, come on."
Amanda: On the one hand, it seems like all they do is interfere in the lives of mortals but not at the scale of societal warfare.
Julia: Unfortunately, Hera, you know, enjoy spending a lot of time undermining Zeus and so spent most of the war kind of undermining this decree and convincing the other gods to disobey Zeus' order. Notably, at one point she like fully just seduced her husband with the help of Aphrodite, Aphrodite, lent her girdle to Hera, which just made her titties look great, magically.
Amanda: Tight, tight.
Julia: And then she puts Zeus into a deep sleep with the help of Hypnos. So the gods could basically interfere in the war without Zeus knowing.
Amanda: That's a wonderful like crossover special edition of the comic book, you know, where like, multiple heroes get together to get something done.
Julia: And it's also notable that like Aphrodite was on the other side of the war, Aphrodite was helping the Trojans and Hera was backing the Greeks, but they all agree they're like, "Well, you know, we do both want to interfere. So I guess we'll work together on this."
Amanda: Nothing unites frenemies like hating a terrible man.
Julia: I also love this line from Edith Hamilton kind of explaining Hera's role in the Trojan War, which was quote, "She never forgot an injury, the Trojan War would have ended in an honorable peace leaving both sides unconquered. If it had not been for her hatred of a Trojan who had judged another goddess lovelier than her the wrong of her slighted beauty remained with her until Troy fell to ruins."
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: That is so metal.
Amanda: That is so metal.
Julia: She's just like, you know, she's the kind of woman who holds a grudge, and then it's like that just desserts where it's like this is going to pay off so that your world is going to burn by the time I'm finished with you.
Amanda: It's really something it's so literary. It's so epic.
Julia: Yeah, truly, truly it is. And I mean, like you know, people probably shouldn't hold grudges
Amanda: No, it's It's not a thing I want to carry into my own life or encourage you to do in yours but that's that's what you know, the epic stories are for right?
Julia: This is literary, you know? We can like route for people for in revenge plots and stuff like that in the fiction without being like, yeah, everyone should get revenge in real life, you should think about how best to get revenge into your high school bullied 20 years later.
Amanda: That is, I think one of the most kind of underappreciated aspects of storytelling where it's not the specter of wish fulfillment. It's not that moral panic, write really well, I'll play violent video games and then suddenly do those things in real life. It is imaginative play like it is it is a creative space. It's a way to think through things and act things feel a secondhand joy or rage or satisfaction that can help you process those things.
Julia: Exactly. And I love that about the Greeks because the Greek gods are so human, so to see their stories play out is kind of a beautiful and wonderful thing.
Amanda: Totally.
Julia: So we've spoken about Tiresias in our Genderfuck the gods episode, I believe.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: Or our crossdressing episode with Andrea Lam.
Amanda: Both of which are excellent.
Julia: Fantastic, go listen to them. But Tiresias was a priest of Zeus, who encountered two snakes that were meeting and then hit them with a stick to make them stop. And as a result was transformed into a woman.
Amanda: Yep, that happened.
Julia: As a woman, Tiresias became a priestess of Hera and got married and had children and Tiresias was transformed back into a man when she found mating snakes once again, and this time just left them alone. And then they're like you learn your lesson. Good job.
Amanda: Smart.
Julia: So after this transformation back into a man Zeus and Hera called upon Tiresias to answer the question as to whether women or men had more pleasure during sex. Zeus said women do, Hera says man do.
Amanda: Tiresias like, "I can tell you."
Julia: Yeah, Tiresias is like, "Of anyone, I personally could tell you." Tiresias sides was Zeus, that women experience more pleasure, and Hera in her frustration made him go blind. Not great, Hera. Zeus ultimately could not change what Hera had done because the gods can't change what the other gods do. That's just like a thing in Greek mythology is like if one god does something to you, we can't reverse that.
Amanda: That's why they have to get so creative and trickstery.
Julia: Exactly. So in this case, Zeus was like sorry that you're blind now. How about I give you the gift of prophecy instead? Sorry, my wife was bad. But yeah, it worked out pretty well for Tiresias because the rest of his life he was like an honored seer and it worked out pretty well.
Amanda: It's again and then Everyone Loves Raymond type situation and King of Queens where you know somebody is like accidentally or maybe on purpose rude to waitstaff and then you leave a gigantic tip because nothing speaks louder than money.
Julia: Sorry about my husband being rude, here is 40% of the bill.
Amanda: Or alternately Julia when you're on obviously a bad date, and then the person leaves and you're like, thank God and the bartender's like thank god and then [46:16] shot.
Julia: Hell, yes.
Amanda: The best
Julia: That happened to me at the pizzeria the other day, where someone was rude in front of us and I gave the pizzeria guy a like look being like, 'so sorry'. And then he gave us an extra slice of pizza and it was great.
Amanda: Amazing. human decency, people.
Julia: Shout out to Umberto's, you guys a great. As we can see from all these stories, there are very few stories where Hera is really portrayed as like loving and helpful. Unlike some of the gods that we've seen in our it's all Greek to me episodes, but the exception to this rule is her aid given to the hero Jason. So as you might remember, Jason was the hero of the journey for the golden fleece and was the leader of the Argonauts. Hera had blessed him and helped him like throughout that entire voyage. She was the one that persuaded Aphrodite to have arrows make Madea fall in love with Jason so that she could aid him with her magic. She was really like this Jason guy, I am hitching my wagon to this Jason kid. When returning home she had the scene nymphs guide the Argo past the deadly whirlpool of Charybdis and also like past the monstrous cave of Scylla. However, when Jason later betrayed Madea by breaking his vow to love her forever, that's when he lost the favor of Hera as well he should you know, because-
Amanda: That's her one thing. That's her one thing.
Julia: That's like literally her one thing, Jason. If you know your patron Goddess is Hera, you got to stay in love with the person you said you'd love forever. Gotta gotta keep those vows, man.
Amanda: In no other scenario what I suggest you stay in a loveless relationship or marriage if it is safe for you not to be but in this one, it's not safe for you not to be like you. You really just gotta you gotta not.
Julia: Yeah, he promised. And that's fucked up that he went back on that promise. And we've talked about how fucked up Jason was in episodes where we talked about the Argonauts. So eventually, he died a lonely and dishonorable death, because Hera, you know, did not favor him anymore, and he was crushed by the rotting mass of the Argo while he was sleeping on it. Poetic. Love it.
Amanda: Poetic.
Julia: Additionally, and I feel like it's also worth noting that the only reason that Jason actually won the favor of Hera in the first place is because Hera wanted revenge against the king Peleus who had killed his stepgrandmother inside one of Hera's temples.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: Yeah, so really, she kind of just used Jason as a pawn in her own revenge plot. And again, playing the long game, Hera
Amanda: Classic Hera.
Julia: Getting that revenge real late on. We haven't really talked about the– the symbols and image of how Hera is worshipped in that regard. So she's often portrayed in art as an extremely beautiful woman. She's depicted with those wide eyes like, I sent to you before a nod to her cow-eyed epithet. She is typically shown wearing a crown being the queen of the gods because of her marriage to Zeus. She is also shown holding a scepter that is tipped with lotus and she's often an art accompanied by the cow naturally the lioness and in Hellenistic imagery like later on with the Romans, the peacock. You want to hear some fun history impacting art in Greek mythology?
Amanda: Yes, always.
Julia: Okay, so peacocks prior to the military conquests of Alexander the Great were unknown to the Greeks.
Amanda: That, Julia is a wild animal not to have known existed and then you see it and you're like, what?
Julia: What is up with this bird? It's so fancy.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: So it wasn't until Alexander the Great brought back what did they call it? The Persian bird is what they called it originally.
Amanda: Oh, my God, of course.
Julia: So Alexander the Great brought those back during his conquests and they spread throughout Greece and the rest of the Mediterranean Peninsula there before that, Hera's main animal and main bird, as we talked about earlier on in the episode was in fact, the cuckoo, which is again, reference to that bird form that Zeus took while he was courting her.
Amanda: I mean, two more different birds almost couldn't be found what a change I think they're both mean But that's about all they have in common.
Julia: Oh, poor cuckoo bird I don't know if it's mean or not but peacock, the other mean.
Amanda: Peacock. Sure are.
Julia: And I just like it is very funny because that is an extremely fancy bird and I'm curious as to whether or not like the royalty of the peacock and the fact that it was like this imported bird that probably only like rich people could get in Greece.
Amanda: Sure.
Julia: That's probably why it became her animal because it was like she is royalty. She's the queen and therefore she gets the peacock
Amanda: Okay, Julia here's my Anna Delvey impression you ready?
Amanda (as Anna Delvey): Peacocks, so exclusive. Only the men though, the women, not exclusive. No.
Julia: Oh, my god. Okay, great.
Amanda (as Anna Delvey): [50:43] boring.
Julia: Oh pomegranates, Amanda. Pomegranates, also sacred to Hera.
Amanda: Yay.
Julia: As like many people who are associated with like, fertility for Hera, in particular kind of represented both fertile blood and her role in the cycle of life and death as a goddess who was associated with childbirth.
Amanda: Right on.
Julia: So in terms of her actual worship in Ancient Greece, she was the patron goddess of Argos and samosa similarly to how Athena was the patron Goddess of Athens. In Argos, her worship was like mainly agricultural, which is kind of unsurprising when it comes to like how ancient her worship in that city was. So her cult there superseded other later agricultural goddesses that would have been worshipped in her place.
Amanda: Yeah, if you're praying for something, it's probably food and safety, you know, for your kid.
Julia: Exactly. Exactly. So Hera, because she was like the goddess that was worshipped in that city. Even before she became like Hera, the goddess of the Olympians, it makes sense that she's now tied to the agricultural success of that city. Most notable of her celebrations was the Heraea, which was celebrated in mainly Argos and Mycenae but like throughout Greece, as well. The focal point of the Heraea were the Heraean Games, which were actually the first recorded women's sports competition among the Ancient Greeks.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: Yeah, it was held every four years in Olympia, it was only one competition. So it wasn't like a lot of sport. But it was like this one sport, and it was a running race. The race could only be run by young, unmarried women. The competitors were divided into three age groups and the women who ran they wore short dresses that were cut above the knee, and the dress also left their right shoulder and breast bear and they ran with their hair loose.
Amanda: Damn.
Julia: Which is like, you know, you know, a little bit like more exposing of like young woman forms.
Amanda: Totally.
Julia: Some scholars believe that this might have been a right that was run after experiencing puberty for the first time, or it was run as like a pre-nuptial ritual.
Amanda: I think in both cases, what a striking image and idea.
Julia: Yeah, it's like you're coming into your womanhood, I suppose. And so we want to show that your body is changing. And so you're participating in this ritual.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Which I think is really interesting and really cool.
Amanda: Also, probably the best day of the year for the young queer girls in Mycenae.
Julia: Wooohhoo! Love it, love it for them. So if we want we can add that to the calendar of the It's All Greek To Me stuff where it's like, "Put a titty out and run a race!"
Amanda: I love it. One titty out, run a race.
Julia: [chants] One titty out, run a race. That's how everyone should run the New York Marathon.
Amanda: I mean, listen, it shuts down my neighborhood once a year and I'd be way more excited about it if everybody with tities had one out.
Julia: There we go. There we go. The winner of these races would win a crown of olive leaves and then was also given a portion of the cow that was sacrificed to Hera during the festival.
Amanda: Not bad, pretty impractical.
Julia: Pretty impractical and we get a steak afterwards. Hell yeah.
Amanda: Oh my god, incredible.
Julia: And then finally, one of her other rituals was done mainly in Samos, and it was called the Shield. So basically, it was just this armed processional done in Hera's honor. I was also tied to Hera being a peace and war goddess with the ceremony for Samos in particular. And as I mentioned before, Samos was very much like one of her earliest cities of worship like we talked about in that Ares episode sometimes you're a goddess or a god and the like piece of your city falls on you whether or not that is your actual domain in later canon.
Amanda: Totally. The men can also have a titty out, by the way that's that's cool with me.
Julia: Yeah, anyone who wants to have a titty, put a titty out, I'm ready for it.
Amanda: That's nice.
Julia: Alright, Amanda. It is poetry corner!
Amanda: Yay!
Julia: So Amanda, we're gonna start with the Homeric Hymn to Hara and I found a bunch of different translations for this. This one is my personal favorite. So I went with this one, so it starts, "I sing of golden-throned Hera whom Rhea bare. Queen of the immortals is she, surpassing all in beauty: she is the sister and the wife of loud-thundering Zeus, —the glorious one whom all the blessed throughout high Olympus reverence and honor even as Zeus who delights in thunder." We can talk about how complimentary these poems are versus how uncomplimentary the stories of her are. And I feel like a lot of that, again has to do with like, if you're going to sing the praises of someone or something, if you're going to say a prayer to them, you're not going to be like, hey, remember that one time you're real mean to Io? Like no, you're gonna just tell the story.
Amanda: Of course, but I do think that with this sort of lens on we can think about the fact that they are kind of observing something that is not necessarily super positive like they are saying, you know, glorious AKA like, we need to give her glory, that sounds safe. Queen of the immortals, sure. surpassing all in beauty, a safe thing to say, but to say, you know, not just the wife of loud thundering Zeus, but as deserving of reverence and honor as he who delights in thunder.
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: And so that can be a way to say like, as scary as her husband, y'all like, I– you know, I think that's totally fair.
Julia: And the poem is even telling the Olympians hold her in as much reverence and honor as Zeus.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: And so we as mortal should do the same as well.
Amanda: Very true.
Julia: Which I agree with.
Amanda: Everybody's scared her.
Julia: And now we're going to talk about the Orphic Hymn which is a little bit more descriptive, I feel like then the Homeric Hymns so-
Julia: Sure.
Julia: The Orphic Hymn goes, "You are seated in a cerulean cavern, having the form of air, Hera queen of all, happy one who shares the bed of Zeus, You provide gentle breezes which sustain the soul. Mother indeed of storms, attendant of the winds, all-begetting. Apart from you life and generation cannot be found; Mingled with the majestic air you partake of everything. You alone hold sovereignty, ruling over all. You are the stream which flutters down through the rushing winds. And now you, happy Goddess, many named, queen of all, Come with a countenance of kindness and joy."
Amanda: This feels very aspirational, Julia. Call Hera happy one who shares the bed of Zeus. I like it. Any of these hymns. You can say it reverently. You can say it with a little bit of fear, perhaps, and a little bit of wanting and that's the kind of proclamation that I'm picturing.
Julia: This also features a lot of stuff that we didn't talk about in the episode and I haven't found a lot of references to otherwise which is this idea that much like Zeus controls like the skies and the clouds and stuff like that. Hera is like the gentle nature of Zeus' domain here. So she is providing gentle breezes. She is the mother indeed of storms, which I guess if Zeus is the father of storms, of course, Hera is the mother of storms. But like being the attendant of winds is kind of like this beautiful imagery she of the majestic air.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: She is not a Queen of Heaven in the way that we talked about, like Inanna being a Queen of Heaven like she does not rule over heaven on her own, but that is her title by marriage, you know what I mean? And so I appreciate that this hymn kind of acknowledges that.
Amanda: And I really enjoy the phrase attendant of the winds, I kind of picture her like on a mountain top, you know, besides Zeus or like at the side entrance as the storms are being brewed up and sent out into the world being there to oversee them as they go, making sure their shoes are tied, and they have lunch boxes all packed and things like that.
Julia: Being a good mom to those winds.
Amanda: Exactly.
Julia: Yeah, I just have made I also love the cerulean cavern. That's such a beautiful image.
Amanda: I know. I want to go I want to go to a cerulean cavern.
Julia: Me too. I want to have like dinner in a fancy blue cave, please and thank you.
Amanda: Yeah, I love that this hymn finishes with, "Come with a countenance of kindness and joy."
Julia: Please, ma'am? please, please, please, please be nice for once.
Amanda: Please, madam, if you're in a mood. That's fine. I can wait.
Julia: I mean, it does say something that they have to ask her like, "Hey, if you come by after this prayer, can you do so with kindness and joy, please?"
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: It's like going to a family event and like a family member turning to you before you walk in being like, Alright, happy faces when we go in there, okay?
Amanda: Oh my god. I know. Julie. I'm sweating. I've like I've been taken. Yeah, good vibes only, right? Right?
Julia: Good. Good vibes, only Hera. Thanks, and we really appreciate it. But yeah, that's Hera for you. I mean, there are a lot of other stories where she is real mean to a lot of ladies that Zeus slept with and I didn't want to dwell too much on that because that is so much of her story. But I wanted to like give this kind of idea of like, who she is how she ended up in this position. And I'm glad we talked about kind of the meta outside of the canon of the Greeks here.
Amanda: Totally, I feel like I know Hera lot better and I can appreciate her stories even more and I think that's a great outcome for any episode of It's All Greek To Me: Finally Fulfilling The Promise of Spirits Podcast by Spirits Podcast.
Julia: Thank you, I agree. And conspirators if you are ever beset by a cuckoo bird in the middle of a storm who then turns into a man who you eventually, marry. Stay creepy.
Julia: Stay cool
[outro]
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
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JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye!
Transcriptionist: KM