Episode 383: Haunted Theatres
/We’re back from our tour, and even though none of the theatres we visited were haunted, we decided to do a dive into the most haunted theatres around the world!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, suicide, fire, child endangerment, child death, poisoning, warfare, stabbing, illness, murder, and government corruption.
Housekeeping
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: https://multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, at the time of recording this, we're going to be going on tour soon. We'll have gotten back by the time this episode comes out, but we're going to be visiting a lot of different cities, and we're going to be performing at a lot of different theatres. And—
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: —as theatre kids, you know the theatres, they're classically haunted.
AMANDA: Of course, they are. The— almost the first thing you learn in theatre, apart from like the difference between, I don't know, proscenium and, like, theatre-in-the-round, is all the things you don't do to bring the ghosts of the theatre upon you.
JULIA: Yes. Superstitious bunch theatre-goers and theatre kids, and people that work in the theatre, right? But Amanda, what are some of the most haunted theatres in the world?
AMANDA: Oh. I have a feeling we're going to find out.
JULIA: Yes, because I wanted to do a little roundup just to kind of give us an idea of what we might be running into during this tour that we're going on. I'm sure that we're not going to have nearly as haunted a theatre as some of the ones that are on this list here. But, you know, it's better to be prepared.
AMANDA: Not with that attitude, Julia. I welcome the hauntings.
JULIA: Oh.
AMANDA: Let me say, I welcome them. None that will affect our AV, or audience experience, but you know, a light to medium haunting that will really sort of enhance my experience and our collective experience of the Rolling Bones tour and that's what I'm looking for.
JULIA: Well, Amanda, I'm going to tell you right away, a lot of these ghosts interfere with both audience and performer, and AV stuff, so let's hope for less haunted than more haunted. But—
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: —you know, there's some exciting ones. I'm going to start with a bunch of ones here in the US, but we're gonna go international for the second half of the episode.
AMANDA: Ooh, yeah. Love it.
JULIA: Alright. So the first one that I want to talk about is something that is kind of near and dear to my heart, because I used to live down the street from this haunted theatre.
AMANDA: Is that the one where Lincoln was shot in?
JULIA: It is not. That— that is one that was close to me when I was living in DC.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: But the Huntington Theatre in Boston.
AMANDA: Ah.
JULIA: Which used to be known as the Boston University Theatre, and before that, the Repertory Theater of Boston is something that I used to pass every day, just go into classes and stuff like that. And I never knew that it was haunted until I started doing research for this episode. Apparently, it has a, like, somewhat sad history, which a fun fact about just old theatres, all of them have sad histories.
AMANDA: Yeah, no, I bet. I mean, also, a lot of people, like, on the fringes of society would work in the theatre, work in vaudeville, all these things. So it— it doesn't surprise me that there is, like, a higher than average incidence of people who, you know, don't have societal protection or like, you know, are— whose lives intersect with crime, whether they wanted to or not.
JULIA: Yeah. And I mean, the thing is, as well as like, it's very hard to talk about hauntings and not also talk about sad things, because usually, a sad thing has to happen for a haunting to occur.
AMANDA: Yeah, but we— we still get some, you know, some thrill and interest out of it, and I think that's good.
JULIA: I agree. So, the Huntington Theatre is said to be haunted by the founder of the theatre, Henry Jewett, who had opened the Repertory Theater of Boston in 1925. So not the— certainly, not the oldest on this list here. There are some old theatres on this list that we're going to be talking about. But Henry Jewett was a Australian actor who had opened the theatre to be a home for his acting troupe, which was actually named the Henry Jewett players.
AMANDA: Okay. Alright.
JULIA: Within five years of opening the theatre, the company went bankrupt. And Jewett was forced—
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: —to sell the theatre, which then became a movie house.
AMANDA: Sure. And— okay. That's— that's a pretty early movie house.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. Pretty— pretty early. A lot of times, it's like the theatre goes out of business, it sits empty for many years. And then they're like, "Oh, we have this theatre. It would be easy to play the new thing, the movies, the talkies."
AMANDA: Exactly. The moving pictures.
JULIA: So the legend goes that Jewett was so devastated by the failure of his production company that he ended up dying by suicide under the stage of the theatre, and his ghost has been haunting it ever since.
AMANDA: I'm just going to say, I feel like on the stage is better, but I won't— I won't psychoanalyze too much.
JULIA: Fair— fair enough. Fair enough. Maybe he didn't want to be found right away, so it was one of those things where it was like, "Let's just do it out of sight." So according to the employees that worked at the theatre, which has been the Huntington Theatre now since 1982. It is said that Jewett's spirit is tied to a painting that hangs in the staircase of the building's main lobby. Now, Amanda, I'm going to tell you a very funny thing.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And I'm going to have you guess about the thing. So the painting—
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: —that is hung of Jewett, he is dressed in a costume of a classic Shakespearean character. Can you guess which one?
AMANDA: Oh, great question. Costume of a classic Shakespearean character.
JULIA: I'll say it's extremely ironic. If you're a theatre ghost, Amanda, what's the worst costume you could possibly be wearing?
AMANDA: I mean, he can't be MacBizzle, can you?
JULIA: It is indeed Macbeth.
AMANDA: Oh, no. Well, I was starting to think to myself like, "What— what costumes would give me a different character in Shakespeare?" Because, like, they're— they're not— they typically don't have, like, distinctive looks, but that's funny. I mean, that's— that's one way to haunt your theatre after your death.
JULIA: Yeah, that's pretty good. So it is said that if anything is ever out of order with the painting, strange things will occur. So for example—
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: —if the lighting illuminating the painting doesn't work, people report that there are, like, disturbances in the bathrooms even though they're closed off to the public, or there is— like packages are left in places that packages would never be found in.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: It's, like, kind of stuff like that, where it's like, "Okay, that's not like spooky necessarily, but it is like disruptive to the people who work at the theatre."
AMANDA: Yeah. Which as a proprietor like— I don't know, if I owned the Multitude studio, and I had to, like, give it up to someone later, I'd also low-key want to, like, mess with their life a little bit.
JULIA: The other thing that they had was one time they had to take the painting down because they were repainting the lobby. And for the entire week that the painting was down, technical issues were plaguing the current production.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: And it's gotten to the point where if the painting needs to be moved, the, like, production company wraps it very carefully. It has its special crate. They have to keep a light on it the entire time, because that's, like, the big thing with him, is like—
AMANDA: He wants the spotlight, right?
JULIA: Yeah, he wants it to be constantly lit. He always wants to be in the spotlight.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: However, it is reported that Jewett is not the only ghost at the Huntington, because according to Holly Mascott Nadler's Ghosts of Boston Town—
AMANDA: Great name.
JULIA: —there's also the ghost of a misty woman in a white dress that is seen hovering around dress rehearsals and is said to be the spirit of the former wardrobe mistress.
AMANDA: Okay. Okay. I mean, she's checking to make sure things look okay. I'm— I'm down for that.
JULIA: So that is the Boston Theater, the most haunted Boston theatre, according to sources and whatnot. How about we move next to Chicago? Which is a city I've never been to, but it's got lots of theatres, and plenty of haunted ones. Arguably, the most haunted theatre in Chicago is the Ford Center for the Performing Arts Oriental Theatre, which is formerly known as the Iroquois Theatre.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: It was built in 1903, and it was advertised as being, quote, "absolutely fireproof."
AMANDA: Oh, no, Julia.
JULIA: You can see where this is going.
AMANDA: Oh, no. Why would you do that?
JULIA: So at the afternoon matinee on December 30th, 1903, about a month after they had opened, the house was packed over capacity. It was a theatre that was designed for 1,600 people, but it was overflowing into the aisles with over 2,000 patrons, many of which were women and children.
AMANDA: No. No.
JULIA: During a dance number, during the second act, the curtain caught fire when an arc light shorted out. And while the stagehands tried to put out the fire, they were unable to stop the spread, which then spread to the flats. And when they attempted to drop the asbestos curtain, which was designed to stop fire from spreading towards the audience—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: —it too caught fire.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: And it was later discovered after the fact that it was not made of asbestos at all, but rather mainly out of wood pulp.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: Which, as you can imagine, made it even more flammable.
AMANDA: I never thought there would be a situation where I say, "Goddammit, where was the asbestos?"
JULIA: Yep. So the fire is spread throughout the building, and it, as well as the hubris of the theatre owners who called it fireproof, ultimately killed over 600 people.
AMANDA: Geez. That's brutal.
JULIA: It was an incident that led to major overhauls in the public building fire codes across the United States, so that is a, like, one good thing that came out of this terrible tragedy.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: But the building was eventually repaired and reopened several times over the course of its early history, but it was eventually raised and reopened as the Oriental Theatre in 1926. Now, many actors have reported uneasy feelings in certain parts of the theatre, especially in a rarely used back alley that has now been nicknamed the Death Alley.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Because of the amount of bodies that they found—
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: —after the fire. Actress Ana Gasteyer, who played Elphaba, in the long running production of Wicked that ran there for four years, reported that on the anniversary of the original fire, so December 30th, she had a paranormal experience during the closing of Act One, which is Defying Gravity for anyone who knows Wicked.
AMANDA: I was just gonna say, I mean, you're— you're typically up in a harness, like that's a technically— I'm sure they do a lot to make sure you're safe, but like, part of me would be a little bit worried every time.
JULIA: Yeah. So you're— you're up in a harness during that part. It's a very loud musical number. It's also very, like, foggy, there's a lot of special effects going on. And Elphaba is supposed to kind of basically fly above the stage in the audience. And Gasteyer commented that during the scene, she noticed that there was, like, a lot of people standing in the wings in small groups, like, more so than there usually are. Like—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —besides the stagehands and whatnot. And then after the show, she was walking back to her dressing room by herself, and she heard the sound of children crying.
AMANDA: Oh, no. Very disturbing.
JULIA: Very disturbing. And then when she reached the end of the hallway, she, like, momentarily saw a woman and two children standing at the other end of the hallway, dressed in period winter clothes.
AMANDA: Geez.
JULIA: The woman supposedly nodded at her and then all three turned a corner and disappeared.
AMANDA: Oh, shit.
JULIA: So according to Gasteyer, she believes that since the musical is a play for families, the ghosts of the mothers and children would join them to watch the performance and that's what she experienced.
AMANDA: Well, if you're gonna see the first act of any musical, that's like a pretty great one. Like, if they—
JULIA: That's a pretty solid act one.
AMANDA: —if they're like sneaking out an intermission, right? Or, like, they can only, you know, manifest for so long. Like, that's— that's pretty entertaining.
JULIA: Amanda, if you were a ghost—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —who died in a tragic theatre accident, let's say—
AMANDA: God, I wish.
JULIA: —what would you hope would be like a long running show in the theatre that you're haunting?
AMANDA: Julia, you've rarely asked me such an important question on the show, because that's just gonna happen to you over and over again, eight times a week, for years, potentially.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And I— see, now I'm like, "What I— do I choose a show that I know I love with the risk that I might get kind of sick of it? Or do I choose something where I can like"— my— my first thought really is Hamilton, just because there is— it's a show that like I quite enjoyed and listened to the soundtrack, but it— it wouldn't like ruin my life if it lost its— its shine for me. And also, there's a lot of different styles of music and kind of like tempos, and like kinds of numbers, where I feel like if I was in a ,you know, like, dreamy mood versus a really like, you know, wanted to get motivated mood, there is a moment for me in the show.
JULIA: Mine is Spider-Man: Into the Dark. Next question. Okay.
AMANDA: It's seven minutes long or whatever.
JULIA: It's the one that they had to close because people kept, like, falling out of the harnesses and— and wild shit like that. They'd just be like, "Well, one of the three Spider-Man is not doing great, so we got to— we got to stop the performance."
AMANDA: That's it.
JULIA: It would just be entertaining, I— I feel. You'd be like, "Ooh, the shenanigans. They can blame it on me because I'm the ghost."
AMANDA: And you could potentially get a new friend if somebody dies tragically in the accident.
JULIA: Oh, no. Too sad.
AMANDA: Well?
JULIA: No one died during Spider-Man: Into the Dark— or Turn Off the Dark. Sorry, I got the name wrong. It's Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark.
AMANDA: And they would in fact turn off the dark when the house lights went up and they said, "Sorry, folks, not today."
JULIA: Gotta go.
AMANDA: Gotta go.
JULIA: Imagine being the ghosts that had to haunt the theatre that Phantom of the Opera ran in for 30 something years.
AMANDA: A lot of competition.
JULIA: Had to get sick of it at that point, right?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And you're like, "Is this story just about me? Am I the phantom of the opera?" I feel like the ghost haunting that theatre would have an existential crisis after a while.
AMANDA: Yeah. Right? Like— or maybe— I know that there was a— Sir Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen did a Waiting for Godot, and that would also be quite like referential and meta. You know, that could be interesting.
JULIA: Could be fun, could be fun. Probably doesn't run as long as you'd hoped for.
AMANDA: No. I think— I think if I had my druthers, I would haunt like a repertory theatre, because there is, you know, quite a bit of— of variation. Or honestly, like I might be— it's the first thought, the best thought here. I might just want to haunt the Delacorte Theater in Central Park, because you have Shakespeare in the Park every summer, something different each time. Occasionally, like a special event will be at the Delacorte, or people will film for, like, a TV show, which is like a lovely setting. You could just have the— the city all around you.
JULIA: That's pretty nice. I like that.
AMANDA: Right?
JULIA: I like that a lot. All right, Amanda, we'll get to the New York City haunted theatre in just a second, but we aren't visiting Charleston on our tour, but it does host a very haunted theatre, which is the Dock Street Theatre.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Now, the building that the Dock Street Theatre occupies was built in 1809, but it was originally known as the Planter's Inn, which is basically it was called the Planter's Inn because, like, farmers from the interior of South Carolina would come to Charleston for a race season, which I think is hilarious.
AMANDA: Like, "Honey, hold it down for a week. I gotta go put money on the horses."
JULIA: So they actually closed in the 1930s and it was left vacant for a number of years until the WPA, the Works Progress Administration—
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: —began restoring the building.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: FDR, new Deal. However, the Planter's Inn did host a number of theatre groups in its day before it was actually a theatre, theatre. Which brings us to our first ghost, which is apparently John Wilkes Booth's father, Junius Brutus Booth, had stayed and performed at the hotel. And according to legend, had almost killed the hotel manager in a fit of rage.
AMANDA: Oh, boy. I— I knew his dad was an actor. I think his brother was an actor, too.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: I— I can't believe that the man named Julius Brutus—
JULIA: Not even Julius, Junius.
Amanda —Junius Brutus was not the one what assassinated president.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, really shocking, honestly.
AMANDA: John Wilkes, like that's— that's an easy name compared to Junius Brutus.
JULIA: So according to the employees, his soul fed by his rage still lingers at the theatre and is seen lurking among the sets.
AMANDA: Damn. That's— that's a great backstory for a ghost, because it's like— it's— it's quite sinister, but not like on the nose. It's very unique.
JULIA: Amanda, the other ghost here, better backstory.
AMANDA: Oh, shit. Okay.
JULIA: Junius is not the most well-known ghost that haunts the Dock Street Theatre. That honor belongs to Nettie Dickerson.
AMANDA: Okay. Sounds like a real 19th century name.
JULIA: So she was a sex worker, who frequented the hotel often during the mid-1800s. And very much desired a marriage, right? But was struggling to find a match because of her low social status and her, quote unquote, "advanced age of 25."
AMANDA: Oh. Okay.
JULIA: Mid-1800s, just— yeah, I know. That's a spinster at that point.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: That's unacceptable. So according to the story, she went and she bought an expensive red dress in order to procure a proposal from her current beau.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: However, on the stormy night that she met him at the hotel, she was rejected.
AMANDA: Oh, shit.
JULIA: He had fallen in love with another woman.
AMANDA: Oh, boy.
JULIA: In her anger, she went up to the second floor, and stood on a balcony, and was basically yelling at the man on the street that, you know— you know, "You can't save me. You should have married me." Et cetera, et cetera.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And as she is screaming at this man from the balcony, she is struck by lightning.
AMANDA: Oh. What?
JULIA: I know. Struck by lightning.
AMANDA: I thought you were gonna say like, you know, jumped off the balcony, which like, you know—
JULIA: Fell, jumped, yep, no.
AMANDA: —tragic, but predictable. Struck by lightning, I did not see coming.
JULIA: Struck by lightning.
AMANDA: I mean, I bet it was like a cast iron, you know, like— or at least metal railing, I guess that makes sense, but damn.
JULIA: Charleston famous for those, like, beautiful second floor balconies in a lot of their buildings.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Poor Nettie, struck by lightning. And now—
AMANDA: Shit—
JULIA: —to this day, it is said that you can see Nettie's soul roaming around the theatre in the signature red dress that she died in.
AMANDA: I mean, what a look. Like, if— if you—
JULIA: What a look.
AMANDA: —gotta go, struck by lightning in front of your ex, you know— or, you know, your— your hopeful paramour, like lit up like a— like a comet in your most beautiful dress.
JULIA: The most expensive dress.
AMANDA: Worst ways.
JULIA: Pretty good.
AMANDA: Worst ways.
JULIA: Also, I really liked that because it is the, like, polar opposite of the like misty woman in white.
AMANDA: It is.
JULIA: You're like, "Nettie went out in style and is still rockin' that style."
AMANDA: Yeah, she is lit up. She is crackling. She is sparkling, and she's full of color.
JULIA: Yes. I— I love it. Another very fashionable ghost is the one that we're going to be talking about now, but we're moving to a more local theatre for us, the New Amsterdam Theatre in New York City.
AMANDA: Oh, sure.
JULIA: Currently, Disney's Aladdin occupies this theatre. But did you know, Amanda, that it is also home to one of Broadway's most active ghosts? Which is Hollywood starlet and Follies' girl, Olive Thomas.
AMANDA: No, I did not.
JULIA: So Olive Thomas was a very famous actress, well-known for her kind of risque role in the, like, raunchier, like, late night show. It was a much more risque version, which was called the Ziegfeld Midnight Frolic.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Which is horny as hell.
AMANDA: If I could time travel, I would essentially only time it around theatre productions I could see, and that is one that goddamn, I want to see. I— I want to see the Ziegfeld Follies at their height. I didn't even know about the Midnight Frolic, but now, I gotta.
JULIA: Yeah. And, like, it was one of those shows where it's like, "Oh, these actresses would get like gifts from very rich men." Like—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: —there's a story that like Olive Thomas received a $10,000 string of pearls from, like, an ambassador or something like that.
AMANDA: I mean, listen, tip your— tip your performers. I'm all for it.
JULIA: Hell yeah. So she was married to actor Jack Pickford, but by the age of 25, she kind of died under mysterious circumstances, AKA she was poisoned.
AMANDA: Oh, shit.
JULIA: So her death was ruled as accidental because she had, supposedly while drunk, drank a solution that her husband was taking to deal with his chronic syphilis.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: And that was what killed her, apparently.
AMANDA: Sure. I mean, that'll— that'll do you.
JULIA: So despite having died while abroad in Paris, her remains were brought back to the United States. And her spirit is said to haunt the New Amsterdam, which was the home of the Ziegfeld Follies, where her fame had begun. Now, the New Amsterdam had by the 1930s kind of fallen into disrepair. First, it was a movie theatre, and then it was shuttered completely because of structural concerns.
AMANDA: Ding, ding, ding. It is extremely skinny and tall, like the building that's over it, at least. I don't know when that was constructed, but if you see a photo of it, you're like, "Oh. Oh, God, that's, like, a very old building."
JULIA: Yes. So Disney actually decided when they were entering the Broadway scene, they were like, "We're gonna make Broadway musicals based off of our movies." They were the ones who bought the New Amsterdam and they sinked $15 million into restoring the building.
AMANDA: That's why you get a, you know, 30-year run of, like, Lion King, Mary Poppins, Aladdin, like whatever Disney's popping out next. And Julia, this is the only Broadway theatre I've never been to.
JULIA: Aladdin, right now, is about to celebrate, I think, its 10th anniversary on Broadway.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Which is kind of wild.
AMANDA: I think they got Todrick Hall in there.
JULIA: I, like, just recently heard a radio advertisement for it. I was like, "Whoa. Okay."
AMANDA: You know, Disney's always flexing their marketing budget. Like, you— you couldn't get tickets to the Lion King, but you also couldn't stop seeing advertisements for the Lion King when we were kids.
JULIA: So strange occurrences started during the restoration that Disney was putting on. Construction workers reported seeing a beautiful woman in a green 1920 style dress walking through the theatre before abruptly vanishing.
AMANDA: Okay. Green, not a— not a color we often see in hauntings.
JULIA: Again, keeping with the— the tradition that Nettie setting up here. You know, we're getting some bright-colored ghosts.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So another story says that a security guard making his rounds one night felt someone tapped him on the shoulder. And when he turned around, he saw the same woman in that green flapper dress, walked through the wall onto 41st Street.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Now, when the theatre finally opened, the lobby was filled with pictures of famous stars who had played at the New Amsterdam in its heyday, and of course, a picture of Olive Tomas was included. Now, employees say that before entering and exiting the theatre, they must blow a kiss good morning and good night to Olive in order to appease her spirit.
AMANDA: Cute.
JULIA: And now this is my favorite fun fact about the ghost of Olive Thomas, which is apparently, Olive only appears for men, and as such, according to a source that I read who, like, did a tour with the like Disney executives who ran the New Amsterdam theatre—
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: —all overnight guards at the New Amsterdam theatre are women so that they will not be bothered by the ghost of Olive.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Kind of cool. Kind of fun.
AMANDA: I mean, I don't know if there is like a gendered under-representation issue in security jobs. It feels like maybe someone would want to like hire a man for no good reason. So I guess— I guess go for those women guards.
JULIA: Happy Women's International Rights Day.
AMANDA: Exactly. Like we learned last episode, yes.
JULIA: Alright. So like I said before, the US doesn't have exclusive rights to haunted theatres, but we'll hear about some from around the world just as soon as we grab our refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
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AMANDA: Hello, everybody, Amanda here. Welcome to the refill. It has been such an incredible few weeks as we were on the Rolling Bones Tour, and coming back, and getting all of our feet under us and catching up on all of the stuff that we put inside. And got to say like, "I'm sorry, I can't answer your email. I'm on tour right now." Which, honestly, was kind of the best reason to go on tour. And meeting, of course, all of you incredible, delightful conspirators. I got to put so many faces to names and it was just an absolute pleasure. So thank you so much for coming into the show if you did, or following along on social media if you didn't. We are putting all kinds of incredible, like, clips and photos, and roundups of what we have been experiencing over the last few weeks on the road on Instagram and Twitter. So if you're not already following us @spiritspodcast or if the Instagram algorithm has eaten our posts and stories, please go ahead and add us to your close friends or whatever it might be to make sure you are following us @spiritspodcast. Bren is clipping some incredible clips and we are starting to post them with help of our social media assistant, Maddie. So please follow us. It has been a very fun time getting to sort of refresh and decide what we're going to be putting on social for Spirits. So we're hopefully making it easier than ever to share the show with your friends, and to look forward to cute moments, including sometimes ones that don't make it into the final episode, but we do have on video. So check us out @spiritspodcast. Thanks as well to our supporting producer-level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Arianna, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah and Scott. And our legend-level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, shout-out Minneapolis, Jeremiah, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. You can join those folks or become a patron and get access to the supersized, bonus urban legends that just came out. There's gonna be another one in a few weeks at the end of April. We are trying to thank you and make you as proud as possible to be a patron at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Now, honestly, folks, the toughest part of the tour was that it started on the day that the Stardew Valley update came out, and so I've had to wait 'till I was home to put in the hours I was really, you know, hoping to put in on this Stardew Valley update. Now, you've probably heard of this game. It is a farming simulator where there's an adorable town, you can marry villagers, you can fight little monsters, you can grow crops. At first, I thought it was just a farming game and I was like, "Alright, whatever. How fun could it be?" But no, I— I fully understand why people have Stardew-themed weddings and kids and homes, and— and all kinds of stuff. And this new update is even more delightful than ever. So if you've never played Stardew Valley, you can play it on any computer, on Steam. You can also play it on pretty much every console that there is out there. Right now, I am playing on my computer because that's where the update is currently available. It'll be on other places soon. But I bought just a little, like, $30 wireless controller for my computer and so now I can sit on my bed or in my bed, frankly, as I play Stardew on my PC, so it is— it is totally worth it. I totally recommend it. Check out the new Stardew Valley. And if all that wasn't enough, Big Game Hunger host, Jenna Stoeber, our newest colleague and comrade here at Multitude, has been putting out excellent, excellent stuff over on Big Game Hunger, where of course, she starts with a randomly generated genre concept and vibe, and then builds a, like, AAA video game franchise, like the marvel IP of video games with different guests each week. It is so much fun, guys. This show has me, like, laughing ear to ear. If you know nothing about video games, you will still highly enjoy it. Jenna has been, of course, a past guest here on Spirits talking about Creepypasta and internet urban legends. And it's just one of the, like, smartest and funniest people out there. Honestly, a true professional, and you will love Big Game Hunger. So check it out now in your podcast app, new episodes every Monday. We are sponsored this week by Blueland. And listen, folks, I don't often clean the toilet at home. That's an Eric chore, God bless him. But it— it makes it easy when I do have to clean the toilet. That Blueland makes incredible toilet cleaning tablets that are honestly so easy to use. Just drop, watch it fizz, brush and flush. It is that simple. No scrubbing, no, like, getting your hand in there with, like a scrubby bottle or whatever. And they're totally plastic- free, which I love. They're on a mission to eliminate single-use plastic by reinventing cleaning essentials to be better for both you and the planet. They are effective, affordable, and I love how easy it is to get the refills mail to my house, and how I get to take it up two flights of stairs. Not, like, heavy gallons of liquid, but light and sustainably packaged tablets. It makes so much more sense to add your own liquid, both for shipping and for schlepping. You know what I mean? So, listen, if you want to get Blueland, they have a special offer for listeners. Right now, get 15% off your first order by going to blueland.com/spirits. You don't want to miss this, blueland.com/spirits for 15% off. That's blueland.com/spirits to get 15% off. This episode of Spirits also brought to you by Wildgrain, the first ever bake-from-frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, fresh pastas, and artisanal pastries. Now, I was happy enough to arrive home to a freezer stocked full of Wildgrain from the tour, and there was so much incredible stuff inside, some sourdough loaves and fresh pasta that we put in some, like, homemade broth. But, honestly, my favorite item are the croissants. They are so easy to just bake from frozen. Honestly, you just, like, put it on the baking rack. You don't even have to use a sheet pan. It is the easiest thing in the world. It makes me feel like a superstar when I get to have my own oven warm fresh croissants of blueberry jam. Oh, my God. And you can now fully customize your Wildgrain box. You can get any combination of breads, pastas, and pastries you like. If you want a box of all bread, or all pasta, or all pastries, you can have that. Plus for a limited time, you can get $30 off your first box, plus free croissants in every box when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits to start your subscription. You heard me, people, free croissants in every box and $30 off your first box when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits. That's wildgrain.com/spirits or use promo code Spirits at checkout. And now, let's get back to the show.
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JULIA: Amanda, I went to the concession stand during intermission and I did pay—
AMANDA: Thanks.
JULIA: —like, $30 for a double of whiskey. Would you like that?
AMANDA: I would. And thank you so much.
JULIA: It's in a commemorative cup, though.
AMANDA: I snuck in some brownies. Would you like those from my backpack?
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: How did you get that passed them?
AMANDA: Who can say?
JULIA: Who can say? Alright. So with those in hand, our very expensive concession said drinks and your smuggled brownies, let's head over to Beijing, China. Beijing, China hosts the Huguang Huiguan Opera House, which was built in 1807.
AMANDA: Damn. I bet it's beautiful.
JULIA: Wildly old. And is part of a complex of very traditional buildings that kind of make up this both, like, performance center, but also museum, which is very cool.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: While perhaps the oldest theatre on our list, the haunting aspect of the opera house actually did not come into play until World War Two. So during the war, many people became unhoused because of, you know, just the general effects of war. And so, the legend goes that a philanthropist, an unnamed philanthropist, built housing for the poor and on house near the theatre. However, he made a mistake in the building process, which we've seen in many a movie and story, which is he supposedly leveled an ancient burial ground in the building process.
AMANDA: I see. I'm glad that this— this myth is not just restricted to sort of, like, colonialist narratives in the US, but spans the globe.
JULIA: Yes, it spans the globe. We're constantly telling people, "Hey, don't disrupt this burial ground," and then they're like, "You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna build right on top of it."
AMANDA: Hate it.
JULIA: The story goes that, these days, disembodied screaming and wailing can be heard in the courtyard of the theatre.
AMANDA: Oh, great.
JULIA: Just what I want to hear when I'm going to the opera.
AMANDA: Tough.
JULIA: In particular, it is said that if you throw a stone while standing in the courtyard, I don't know why you would do that, but—
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: —whatever, a ghostly voice will scold you for the dangerous and destructive activity.
AMANDA: Okay. I mean, I'm— I'm here for a ghost that kind of, like, uphold the decorum, but I don't think it needs to, like, scream and wail when it's not being like— don't do that to people who are, I don't know, littering cigarette butts or something.
JULIA: So I think the disembodied screaming and wailing is the souls that were, you know, disturbed when the—
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: —graveyard was disrupted, or the burial ground was disrupted. However, the voice that will scold you about throwing stones and doing destructive activities is supposed to be the old groundskeeper who haunts the area, who after he passed away, stayed on in his position, or to keep an eye on the opera house.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: There you go. That's nice. Again, I don't want the afterlife for some ghosts to be, "Oh, you must stay at your job and live in a capitalist hellscape for the end of your days." But if you really love your job, I guess that's not a terrible thing, you know?
AMANDA: And try to not capitalist in theory, at least.
JULIA: Oh, yes. True.
AMANDA: So perhaps this ghost is just very dedicated, and loves the space, and wants to keep it pristine.
JULIA: I hope that's the case for him. I hope that—
AMANDA: If it helps him.
JULIA: —if he's there, and he's yelling at people for— for throwing rocks, that it's because he loves that place and not because he's like, "And now, I still have to do my job."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Alright, Amanda. When you think of haunted theatres, I'm sure a lot of people might think of The Phantom of the Opera.
AMANDA: Oh, of course.
JULIA: Now, did you know though, Amanda, that the Palais Garnier in Paris actually inspired the musical with a lot of different aspects.
AMANDA: No, I did not.
JULIA: So the Palais Garnier is said to have ghosts haunting the opera house, and most famously, it is known for the chandelier incident.
AMANDA: Ah.
JULIA: Which is an actual event that took place in 1896, which inspired the big Act One finale moment in The Phantom of the Opera.
AMANDA: Oh, damn.
JULIA: So in 1896, the counterweight supporting the grand chandelier above the audience detached and fell into the crowd.
AMANDA: Oh, no. No. It's the last thing you want.
JULIA: Yeah. The body count much lower than Chicago, thankfully. Only one person was killed, but several were injured. And while it was a freak accident, there were rumors that the opera ghost was to blame.
AMANDA: Tough.
JULIA: Now, see, in 1873, the original Paris opera venue, before the Palais Garnier opened, had actually caught fire, which destroyed the space. And during the fire, a ballerina was said to have died and her fiance who was the pianist for the orchestra was also—
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: —burned during the fire.
AMANDA: Oh, man.
JULIA: Now, in his mourning and his pain, he was said to have retreated to the underground of the new opera house that was being built, the Palais Garnier, and was said to live beneath the theatre until his death.
AMANDA: There you are. We got the mass. We got the burn. We got the— the lost love. So many themes going on.
JULIA: There is one more thing that inspired Andrew Lloyd Webber's Phantom of the Opera, though, and it was said that the Palais Garnier, much like in The Phantom of the Opera shows, actually has an underground lake.
AMANDA: Does it really now?
JULIA: It's not really an underground lake, but it is actually an underground reservoir that was built to house the water that kept rising up during the groundwork construction of the building.
AMANDA: Oh, I see. I thought you were gonna say it was for like fire suppression or something, but yeah, if there's— if there's, you know, groundwater and you can't, like, pump it away, because you're building it in the early 1800s, I guess you just brick it up and hope it stays. I don't know.
JULIA: Yeah. Famously, like, you know, Paris and the Catacombs and the kind of like labyrinths under the city is a big thing. And the Phantom of the Opera and also the actual Palais Garnier really played with that quite a bit, which I think is kind of cool.
AMANDA: I'm looking at pictures now, what a gorgeous theatre. It had— it looks like the Vatican or something, like it's so ornate inside.
JULIA: Yes. And it's— it's just wild, you know? And it ended up being the home to the Paris Opera, like the— the big opera that was famous in Paris at the time. So, like, it makes sense that it was so opulent.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Very much so.
JULIA: Alright. So across the channel from France, Amanda, we've got another haunted theatre, which is the Theatre Royal Drury Lane.
AMANDA: We gotta get some old London theatres in here.
JULIA: Alright. So this is said to be, according to some, the world's most haunted theatre.
AMANDA: Drury Lane. I mean, it's in a— it's in a fable or the children's rhyme and everything.
JULIA: There you go. So it was built in 1663, though the current building that it occupies was built in 1812, which makes it the oldest continually operating theatre in London.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: Usually, oldest means most haunted.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So many ghosts are said to call the Theatre Royal home. Regency era comedian, Joseph Grimaldi, for example, as well as a figure that is simply referred to as The Man in Gray.
AMANDA: Ooh. You know Man with the Hat, Julia, we— we love just, like, eponym almost.
JULIA: Amanda, when I say that The Man in Gray is said to be an 18th century gentleman rocking a tricorn hat.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: And a gray cape.
AMANDA: That's— that's also just fashion from then, so I don't want to read too— too much into it, but that's very good.
JULIA: But he's got the tricorn hat, he's got the gray cape. He is said to be spotted in the upper box of the theatre and has been by countless actors on stage, as well as audience members and stagehands over the years. He has been around for a while. And despite his scary appearance, his appearance during a production is said to bring good luck and success to those shows. So if he appears during it—
AMANDA: Oh, good.
JULIA: —it means like it's a good show. It's gonna be successful.
AMANDA: Yeah. He doesn't come out for just anything. He comes out for the good shows.
JULIA: Yes. I— I like that. I'm like, "Ah, discerning ghost, he has taste."
AMANDA: You know how I said last week that I didn't like pranks?
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: I am now thinking about how tempted I would be to— if I were working at that theatre, to dress in gray and appear in that box. Just the temptation would be so strong.
JULIA: I don't think it's a bad idea. And, you know, it may give, like, the actors on stage more confidence and it might like— you know, the rumor mill—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —would be like, "Oh, well, you have to go see this play. It must be good. The Man in Gray appeared during it."
AMANDA: Exactly. It would be very wholesome.
JULIA: Yes. I think it would be great. It is believed, Amanda, that The Man in Gray is tied to some human remains that were found on the side of the theatre.
AMANDA: Oh, sure.
JULIA: During renovations that were done in the 1840s, a skeleton covered in gray rags was found walled up in a small forgotten room.
AMANDA: It's pretty terrible. I was going to say like, "Oh, you're going to excavate remains when you're building in London, but walled up in a room, that is not like, you know, ancient bones that we find, like, under the foundation from Roman times." Like that's, that's a whole 'nother game.
JULIA: Yeah. And the fact that there's still cloth covering their body also indicates that like—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —it hasn't been that much time passed.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: But at least it's skeletal remains and not like fleshy remains, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah. Yeah.
JULIA: A medical examination of those remains concluded that the man had been stabbed with a knife, confirming at least to believers that the skeleton belonged to the spirit of The Man in Gray. Now, calling back to the previously mentioned, Joe Grimaldi, who is also said to haunt the theatre, he was a prominent actor and dancer who starred in multiple productions at the Theatre Royal. He often performed as a clown in many of the theatre's famous pantomimes during the early 1880s, but retired due to poor health. I think he had, like, respiratory issues or something like that.
AMANDA: Julia, I was just thinking to myself, "Oh, you said he was a comedian. That's pretty incredible that he also dances, and sings, and acts." And then I was like, "I mean, what— what do you think comedy was in the— in the Regency period?"
JULIA: It was not— they weren't doing five-minute standup.
AMANDA: It wasn't standup, so—
JULIA: I'm so curious as to when, like, original standup started. I mean, I so associated with the Borscht Belt that I— I would have to guess that there's some like, you know, Catskills, you know, New York City's sort of Lower East Side origins, but—
JULIA: I feel like it's got to be like kind of related to Vaudeville, in a way. I could be wrong, though.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Who knows?
AMANDA: As like a— an act, yeah.
JULIA: So performed as a clown until his retirement due to poor health. During his retirement, he fell into poverty, was said to have died penniless in 1937. But it is said that his spirit remains at the theatre after his death. And many fellow actors have said that Grimaldi's ghost has visited them on stage and helps them perform better. Like, he's there just, like, coaching them through it.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: Which is very sweet.
AMANDA: Aw. That is very sweet. Good for him.
JULIA: He's like, "I really would have stayed acting until my death—"
AMANDA: If I could.
JULIA: "—if I hadn't had, you know, health problems." And now, he's out there, you know, in the afterlife being like, you know, "I think that if you approach the performance of King Lear like this."
AMANDA: Yes, exactly.
JULIA: "You might be able to get a laugh out of the audience." King Lear is not a comedy.
AMANDA: "This thing called a tight five was not present when I was working, but I pick up a thing or two in the last 100 years."
JULIA: "I've watched a lot of men do tight fives and let me tell you, here's a few tweaks you could make."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. You could always make it tighter. That's what I always say.
JULIA: That's what I always say. That's a joke from someone's tight five for sure.
AMANDA: I'm sure.
JULIA: Alright. Finally, we're going to head over to Wellington, New Zealand, and the St. James Theatre. Built in 1912, and nearly demolished during the '80s, the St. James has gone through plenty of ups and downs as a theatre want to do, just in general when it's been around this long.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Originally in the same location, a theatre known as The Fuller after the name of the entertainer who built it in 1899, John Fuller, purchased land from a church to build a theatre.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Now, rumors say that the land bought from the church was not an empty plot, but rather was a raised cemetery.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Though, there's no proof that that is actually the case. It's just rumor. But The Fuller was declared a fire hazard in 1911, and was demolished, only for the St. James Theatre to be built the following year.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Better that it was a fire hazard than an actual fire.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And also they're not claiming it was absolutely fireproof, which was a win.
AMANDA: I am now realizing that that's probably why there are fire curtains in theatres. The thing that I first saw when I visited London when I was 16, I was like, "What's this, like big curtain just like slamming down at intermission?" Oh, that makes a lot of sense, to contain a fire on the stage.
JULIA: Well, Amanda, that's what the asbestos curtain was supposed to be.
AMANDA: Yep, yep.
JULIA: And then it was just made of wood pulp.
AMANDA: And it was like, "Hey, you want a little accelerant for this blaze? There you go."
JULIA: It makes me so bad.
AMANDA: Does it go floor to ceiling? It sure does.
JULIA: I didn't even talk about this, but the Chicago one, it was like they had bribed so many fire marshals, and even the mayor, and like all this other shit. And, like, you know, no one got arrested for any of it. It's bullshit. I hate people. I hate corruption. I get so mad. Alright. So the St. James was built the following year after The Fuller was demolished. It was still owned by John Fuller. But when John fuller passed away in 1923, the St. James went through several owners before it too was kind of turned into a movie theatre. And it remained that way until after World War Two when it started hosting stage performances again. So it was kind of a split movie theater, stage performance kind of theatre.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: While some of the haunting is said to have been from that supposed cemetery, one of the most famous ghosts is the ghost of a Russian performer named Yuri. Now, Yuri supposedly fell to his death from the theatre flies, and it was ruled an accident. But the rumors say that he was actually pushed by another performer.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: A woman named Pasha, who might have been his jealous lover.
AMANDA: I see.
JULIA: Now, despite Yuri's kind of tragic death, he is considered a friendly ghost who enjoys, like, playing with the lights. He'll oftentimes turn them back on again after the cleaners have already turned them off. And he's like, very, like mischievous and playful.
AMANDA: Okay. I like that Yuri has transformed this experience from, you know, the tragic end of his mortal life to pranking.
JULIA: He's also, Amanda, famously said to have saved the life of one of the stage projectionist twice, the same guy twice.
AMANDA: Same guy twice?
JULIA: Same guy twice.
AMANDA: Alright. Did this guy not learn his lesson? Did he have bad luck? Or did management like force him in sooner than he expected?
JULIA: I'll let you be the judge of that, okay?
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: So the story goes, the first time, that the projectionist was trying to find a light switch on a pitch-black stage when he felt himself pushed backwards. Like, kind of shoved.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: In the— like, he's walking one direction, he gets shoved back, like, several feet.
AMANDA: Yeah. Wow.
JULIA: So when he finally managed to find the light switch, switched it on. And he saw that if he had stepped any further where he had been searching for the light switch, before he had been pushed, he would have fallen into the orchestra pit.
AMANDA: Oh, damn.
JULIA: Which would have been bad. That's a deep fall.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. And what year was this again, that this happened?
JULIA: I 'm not entirely sure. It's more modern day, for sure.
AMANDA: Well, I'm sure before there is like, you know, automatic sensors and good glow tape. This is like a very real thing.
JULIA: Yes, for sure. For sure. The other story, the second time this ghost saved this man, he was on stage, I don't know why this is, but holding his infant son.
AMANDA: Oh, okay at his, like, work.
JULIA: He was cradling his infant with him.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Sure. Fine.
AMANDA: Come to work with daddy.
JULIA: He's walking across the stage. Suddenly, he hears a beam collapse right above him.
AMANDA: Whoa,
JULIA: He feels himself pushed out of the way. And then as he's pushed out of the way, falls to the floor, looks next to him, and his baby, his infant son is, quote-unquote, "carried in the air out of harm's way several feet away."
AMANDA: Oh, my God.
JULIA: And the baby's totally fine. He's fine. He gets out of the way, the baby is unharmed. And just like Yuri saved the day.
AMANDA: So he, like, saw the baby, like, float from, like, arm position, like down to the stage?
JULIA: Correct.
AMANDA: Whoa.
JULIA: That's wild, right?
AMANDA: That is wild.
JULIA: So shout-out to Yuri. Very friendly ghost here.
AMANDA: Thanks, Yuri.
Jula: And Yuri really bounces out the other very notable ghosts from the St. James Theatre, which is the whaling woman.
AMANDA: Oh, sure.
JULIA: Yep. She is a ghost that has been seen and most notably heard throughout the entire theatre.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: The story goes that she used to be an actress, who after having retired, wanted to like have a comeback, wanted to make a— her name on the stage again. However, her first night back, she was booed off stage and later died by suicide.
AMANDA: I completely get that this is a trope. I think I've read enough, like, murder mysteries starring older women protagonists that my first reaction is like, "Oh, sure. Like how dare a woman over 30, like, want to accomplish something?" You know, like, let's— let's leave her alone and support her.
JULIA: Yeah. Unfortunately, the wailing woman, not a girl's girl. Her spirit is said to target female actresses.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: Causing them accidents like sprained ankles, falling off ladders, even ruining their voices while on stage because she is jealous of their success.
AMANDA: No. Ladies, we have to unite against the patriarchy.
JULIA: You gotta be a girl's girl even if you're a ghost, okay?
AMANDA: Especially if you're a ghost.
JULIA: Especially if you're a ghost.
AMANDA: Women need the extra boost.
JULIA: Famously, filmmaker Peter Jackson was said to have seen the wailing woman when he was visiting the theatre at one point.
AMANDA: I'm sure Peter Jackson finds his way into almost every New Zealand urban legend at this point.
JULIA: As he should, as he should. So Amanda, while I don't think that we're going to have too many problems with ghosts during our tour, I will be sure to update everyone if we do have a ghostly encounter at one of our venues. But I think it's always good to be prepared for the worst when it comes to ghosts and performing, so I wanted to give us a— these things to kind of think about before we go off on tour.
AMANDA: This is fabulous. And I think in the dressing room each night before The Rolling Bones Tour kicks off Spirits live, we should say to ourselves, "Hello, spirits. Welcome."
JULIA: "It's us, your girls."
AMANDA: "We are girl's girls, and we are ghost girls. So thank you for how having us, and be nice."
JULIA: Yes. And every picture of like a lady ghosts that I see, I'm gonna blow kiss to and say, "Good evening, and also good night, and thank you for letting us use your stage and not trying to kill us."
AMANDA: Yeah. And Julia, I'm not gonna lie to you, I probably am not going to say the word Macbeth, just to be safe.
JULIA: Listeners, thanks so much for joining us for this episode. And the next time you see a ghostly apparition in the back of a theatre, remember, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
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