Feed Drop: Queens Podcast - Amina of Zaria
/This week, we give you an episode from our friends at Queens Podcast about the life of Amina of Zaria, a legendary figure in African history. Enjoy this episode capturing the incredible story of a woman who defied the norms of her time!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of warfare, misogyny, slavery, sexual innuendo, and genitalia.
Housekeeping
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
JULIA: Hey, conspirators, Julia here. Amanda and I are just getting back off of our trip to Portland. while we get over our jet lag and get back into the swing of things, I've got something special for you this week. We have a really fun episode from our friends over at Queens Podcast. If you're not familiar, Queens Podcast is a show that we think you will really like, especially if you like Spirits. Best friends, Katie and Nathan, pair a cocktail with a woman from history and then tell her story. It's a little goofy, it's a little boozy, but it's all about serious female empowerment. This episode is from 2021 about Amina of Zaria, who's a fierce Nigerian queen who led armies despite the fact that she was living in the 16th century when that simply wasn't a thing that women did. If you liked this episode, Queens has literally hundreds of episodes to choose from, ranging from warrior Queens like Amina to modern day women like Tina Turner, the Queen of Rock and Roll and basically everything in between. We love a little bit of variety. And we think that you'll love this episode of Queens. So check it out, and we will have a new episode of Spirits for you next week later, saders.
KATIE: Hi, this is Katie.
NATHAN: And this is Nathan.
KATIE: And you're listening to Queens Podcast, the show about women in history.
[theme]
KATIE: Nathan, who are we here to talk about today?
NATHAN: O.M.G.
KATIE: Tell me.
NATHAN: Queen Amina.
KATIE: Yes. Queen Amina of Zaria. Before we get started, Nathan, what are we drinking? This looks like a production.
NATHAN: I Googled Nigerian cocktails, and what came up was the Nigerian Chapman. So I sat down, researched this recipe. You're gonna hate it, Katie.
KATIE: Okay.
NATHAN: It's one liter of Fanta soda, half a liter of Sprite, however much vodka you want to add. And then, like a half a cup of Blackcurrant liqueur.
KATIE: This sounds like a toothache.
NATHAN: Yeah. It is a toothache, but it's kind of delicious.
KATIE: I—yeah. All the vodka that I want be like, and two bottles of vodka to cancel out all the sugar.
NATHAN: Yeah. I mean, it's a lot like so I knew you would hate it.
KATIE: You know what? You know what? I think I'll take one for the team. I'll just give it a try, you know, twist my arm. Let's see.
NATHAN: Cheers, bitches.
KATIE: Cheers. So let's get started.
NATHAN: So preface.
KATIE: Preface. Preface, this shit.
NATHAN: Amina isn't our first queen that we've ever covered that doesn't have great resources.
KATIE: Yeah.
NATHAN: Like not good records.
KATIE: She's not the first one we've ever covered, either that it's not completely proven that she existed. It's giving me Boudica. You know what I mean? A lot of it is legendary. A lot of it is word of mouth. But it does seem that even if she didn't exist, the story is based on someone who did.
NATHAN: Moral of the story is she's a badass.
KATIE: Yeah—oh, we will get to how bad ass she was. But even though the facts are murky, we're gonna do our best.
NATHAN: Yes.
KATIE: So the primary source of her life was written by a leader that was like 150 years after her life, called Muhammad Bello. And he lived like a century or so after Amina. So again, it's giving me kind of like Agrippina vibes, or like Cleopatra vibes. These ancient ladies who their stories were written down [4:00]
NATHAN: [4:01] don't call me, but my middle name, ancient lady.
KATIE: Nathan, ancient lady.
NATHAN: Oh ouch. That hurts.
KATIE: We're still young. Nathan, we're still young. So that being said, let's get into it.
NATHAN: Yeah. So she was born maybe around 1533, and maybe Zaria Nigeria.
KATIE: Zaria Nigeria is like Northwest Nigeria.
NATHAN: So the makeup of Nigeria is all a lot different from what we know right now.
KATIE: Yeah. It was a lot different. There were seven different states in the Hausa Kingdom, which is where Amina's family is from, and Amina lived in one of the states called Zazzau. And like state we're using, kind of—
NATHAN: Can you say that one more time? Zazzau.
KATIE: No uh, Zazzau. I actually had to—I couldn't fi— I couldn't figure out how to pronounce it, so I really tried. I went onto YouTube and listened to different— all these different pronunciations, but they change with the different kind of Nigerian accents people had.
NATHAN: So correct us if we—
KATIE: Yeah, correct us if we're wrong. I did find someone on Twitter that told me I think phonetically, an American would say it like this, so that is what I'm going off, Zazzau.
NATHAN: So she was born to a ruling family in Zazzau. She was born during the reign of her grandfather. Amina was his favorite granddaughter, child in general, and would bring her with him to military drills.
KATIE: Okay. Okay.
NATHAN: Basically she was, like, his little shadow went wherever he went. And as a result, she— she knew, like, when she was growing up, at a really young age, she's gonna run this shit.
KATIE: Yeah. I mean, her grandfather, the king, is already preparing her for— it's— it's reminding me of like and Lion King, when he was like, all of this will be yours one day. But I think that's so interesting that even though she was a girl, he was like, you want to come to military drills with me? And then whenever he saw how interested she was in that, he was like, oh, you like the military part, let's double down on that military shit, let's do that.
NATHAN: No—
KATIE: Her grandfather seems to be the one that really took the Zazzau state and brought it into like the powerhouse that it was by this time. This area of West Nigeria was a huge trading nation.
NATHAN: Yeah. They built this city. [sings] They built this city on trading gold.
KATIE: [sings] Trading gold. We build that city. And cloth and spices and horses and lots and lots of other things. It was a huge trading port. If any Europeans were coming in wanting to trade with them, they had to, like, go through Zazzau. And her grandfather just really capitalized on that.
NATHAN: So, cloths, spices, everything was traded through this area.
KATIE: And this was back in a time—remember, like people are killing themselves to get fucking nutmeg. Like—
NATHAN: Yeah. I'm gonna die on this nutmeg.
KATIE: I saw this meme recently that was like, we think that people from the medieval ages would be so blown away by, like, our cars and the Internet and stuff, but really they would just be like, spice rack, you must be a king.
NATHAN: Yeah. No, that's true. You have black pepper?
KATIE: What?!
NATHAN: So, speaking of home life, her dad was named King Nikatau, and her mother was Queen Bakwa. We know she had, like, two siblings, a sister named Zaria, not to be confused with Zara.
KATIE: Like the store? Yes, not to be confused with the mid range clothing line, Zara. Yep.
NATHAN: She also had her brother named Karami, and we believe she was a lot older than her siblings.
KATIE: Yeah.
NATHAN: Which we'll get into.
KATIE: We'll get in—yeah, we'll get into in a little bit. Yeah, Zaria, her sister, like, that's what the city is called now is Zaria which I found interesting. But again, we'll get into it in a little bit. Something really, really interesting that I couldn't find more on, which is going to be a reoccurring theme in this episode.
NATHAN: In this episode.
KATIE: I found a lot more mentions about her mother, Bakwa than I did her dad. Bakwa seems to have been the more powerful one in the relationship.
NATHAN: More power to you bitch.
KATIE: Love this. Absolutely love that. It doesn't seem like her mom was just a Queen Consort. It seemed like her mom was either a co-ruler or the main monarch. Her— the mom was not from Zazzau or pro—I don't know. We don't know that. But from what I could tell, her mom wasn't from Zazzau, but she was from such a rich and powerful family, and she brought so many resources and so many men and so many guns to help protect the city [9:26]
NATHAN: Men and guns.
KATIE: Ohh. [9:28]
NATHAN: Makes the world go round.
KATIE: Gay bar in Texas, yes, yes, yes.
NATHAN: So there's a whole lot that we don't know about her upbringing, like education. Um, relationship with her family?
KATIE: Except for grandpa, right besides that.
NATHAN: So we do know that she would have been Muslim. Though, if—if religion was like a big part of her life, we really just don't know if it is—
KATIE: From— right. From what I could tell is that, Islam came to Nigeria in the 1400s and it spread slowly. So I kind of have a feeling that the Islam that she practiced isn't a whole lot like modern day Islam, because it seems like she may have also still had a bit of the old religions, like more, what we'd call, like pagan kind of religions as well. So I don't know. I really couldn't find, like you said, if religion was a part of her life.
NATHAN: We just don't know.
KATIE: We just don't know. Yeah.
NATHAN: Like we have no idea.
KATIE: Right.
NATHAN: Really, all we do know is that she was really into learning. She was really into battle and combat, which strap on those combat boots, girl. Fuck these gender norms.
KATIE: Fuck these gender norms. I'm gonna be a soldier one day. What I love about is like, it doesn't seem like anybody discouraged her from it, either. They were like, yeah, babe, you can be a soldier one day. Cool.
NATHAN: I love this journey for her.
KATIE: Love it.
NATHAN: So when she was 16 years old, she was named heir apparent.
KATIE: It was a title called Magajiya, kind of like how you'd call it the Prince in France, the Dauphine, or the Prince in England, the Prince of Wales. Their title for the heir apparent was Magajiya.
NATHAN: So probably meant that her granddad died around this time?
KATIE: Yeah, that probably meant her parents became ruler—I'm sorry, grand dad.
NATHAN: Heirs. And so they're passing down names.
KATIE: Yeah. Bittersweet.
NATHAN: Yeah. We know she was close to her grandfather. And it's like one of the only things that we really know.
KATIE: About her upbringing, yeah. Was that her and her grandfather were close. That must be so weird. Someone you love dies, but because they died, you get more titles and stuff like, that's—that's one thing about nobility and royalty that I've always thought was so weird. Like—
NATHAN: Yes.
KATIE: At the funeral, but also like, but I get this crown now. Okay.
NATHAN: Okay, cool. So at this time, her brother hadn't been born yet, because it was still like, typically tradition for sons to be the heir if the daughter was older. So I think Karama must have been like, 16 years younger than Amina?
KATIE: At least, at least.
NATHAN: Huge, huge.
KATIE: Yeah, yeah.
NATHAN: Huge gap. Huge gap.
KATIE: That is a huge gap, especially if there's no children that we know of in between the two. So, of course—
NATHAN: Rabbit hole?
KATIE: Yes. Of course, I went down a rabbit hole which led to nothing, because that was the theme of this research, of like there being, like, four sources, and then all kind of stopping at the same place. I was like, okay, did they maybe marry super, super young so then it wouldn't be so weird that they have one kid so much later? I—but—
NATHAN: Direct quote. All the historians said [13:00]
KATIE: If you—you can't see. Anytime I make that noise, I'm doing the shruggy face emoji.
NATHAN: So one cool thing about this society is that it was like, yeah, we prefer been to be in charge because, you know, everyone's history is—
KATIE: Everyone is sexist.
NATHAN: One more time?
KATIE: Everyone is sexist.
NATHAN: She's like holding her microphone, like giving me Mariah Carey finger vibes and I love it. At the same time, they're like, but if a woman proves herself, she wouldn't necessarily be like, barred from holding a place in leadership just because she was vagina.
KATIE: Just because vagi—vagina did not, you know, necessarily disqualify you from leadership. Yes.
NATHAN: It's about damn time.
KATIE: Yes.
NATHAN: So by the time she was a teenager, she was already viewed like, okay, this girl knows her shit. Like she's good.
KATIE: And that shi— then that shit that she knew was war. She was great at war. Side note, if this was a man, we wouldn't be celebrate. We'd be calling him a war dick. Like, let's just be honest. If this was a man—
NATHAN: Absolutely.
KATIE: —we'd be calling him a war dick. But this is so refreshing that it's a woman being—that, like, it's noteworthy, and that she, you know, eventually rises through the ranks. So before people come at us being like, men's rights, I don't know like being like, why are you celebrating—
NATHAN: Men's right.
KATIE: —yeah. Why are you celebrating a woman doing the stuff that you would talk shit on a man doing it? It's because so few women were allowed to really display their talents. Like this would have been at the time such like a celebrated trait in a man. So it's very rare that it was also a celebrated trait in a woman. Though we do not condone war, which we will get to.
NATHAN: Get to. So soon after becoming his heir, she was flooded with marriage proposals. Surprise, surprise.
KATIE: She was a hot commodity on the marriage market.
NATHAN: Yeah. They're gonna get all this land. Okay, let me marry you.
KATIE: Yeah. Absolutely. She was flooded with gifts daily. Like every Prince, every rich guy's son from throughout the area is like coming and like just flooding her with gifts. Just like jewels, and, yeah.
NATHAN: Jewels [15:34]
KATIE: [15:36]
NATHAN: So it's worth noting that in Zazzau they did practice slavery, unfortunately.
KATIE: Unfortunately, it was this— it was a big status symbol.
NATHAN: I don't like this. I don't like this. Um, they traded cloth, they traded spices, they traded jewelry, like everything that people trade.
KATIE: But yeah, when she's being flooded with gifts, with cloth. Like I read one story that was like, she was given 20 bags of white cloth, 20 bags of blue cloth, and 50 enslaved people. And I was like, what is the conversion rate? I don't understand.
NATHAN: I don't want to know the conversion rate.
KATIE: No.
NATHAN: Because people are people.
KATIE: People are people, and they should not have a value on them. But it was like, such a status, like, if one of her suitors could give her these things, it would be like—
NATHAN: I feel icky.
KATIE: No, I feel very icky. I don't like it.
NATHAN: But yeah, she was like, basically, why would I marry any of y'all? Like—
KATIE: Why— I mean I'm already air like I don't need a man.
NATHAN: But like suitors keep coming. And before long, she's had her own independent wealth. She's got all these gifts from men, and she's hoping that one of them will marry them. Like, no?
KATIE: Yeah. They're like, they're like, maybe if we just keep throwing gifts at you, you'll marry us, one of us.
NATHAN: I like gifts.
KATIE: And she is just like, she's like I like—yeah, I like if you can keep giving me gifts, I have no intention of marrying any of you. I don't know if she ever said. I don't know if she was like, forthright with them, like, I'm not gonna marry you. Or if she was just like, hey, you know what I might come around.
NATHAN: Yeah. Right, right? It's like I'm not—
KATIE: But she had no intention of marrying any of them [17:27]
NATHAN: No. It's like I'm not saying no, but I'm not saying yes.
KATIE: I'm not saying no, but I'm also not saying no to more money, please.
NATHAN: So, like we said, she's not interested in men, getting married. She's interested in war.
KATIE: Good God, y'all.
NATHAN: Good God, y'all. She joined the army, became a general, which—
KATIE: Yes.
NATHAN: —I love this for her.
KATIE: Love it.
NATHAN: A little bit of nepotism at the time.
KATIE: Yeah.
NATHAN: Because her parents were in charge of everything, so obviously they like hand her the role. But it's not because she wasn't, like, smart as hell, though, like, she knows what she's doing.
KATIE: She's been doing it since she was a toddler. She's—she's Caligula, little boots of Nigeria, basically. She's big boots.
NATHAN: Big boots.
KATIE: Big boot energy.
NATHAN: Amina, big boots.
KATIE: So did she get the role uh, because her parents were King and Queen? Yes, probably.
NATHAN: Yeah, yeah.
KATIE: But, she was still good at it. She was—she wasn't bad at it.
NATHAN: Yeah, right. And while we can imagine some men being like, I'm not gonna follow this woman, she's got a uterus.
KATIE: You never know what those uteruses are gonna do.
NATHAN: Float around in your brain. So, we don't have it actually documented that something was ever gonna happen like that, because Amina probably would have them super killed.
KATIE: I like—yeah, exactly. If anybody ever spoke up, like, we don't want a woman leading the army, they did not live to write it down. So—
NATHAN: I love you Amina.
KATIE: She was fierce in battle and all things, basically.
NATHAN: But her parents role is actually a time that was known for peace.
KATIE: Love, it.
NATHAN: So the army was a bit more for like, protection, just in case we need it.
KATIE: Just in case we need to go on the defense, let's have this army.
NATHAN: But Amina had plans for the future. Like, let's be real. Spoiler alert, that's not peace.
KATIE: She did not have plans for peace in the future.
NATHAN: No.
KATIE: So fast forward, it is 1566, and both of her parents have passed away. Amina would have been about 33 and her parents are gone.
NATHAN: And her brother becomes King. Which if she had like any animosity towards him, we just don't know.
KATIE: I don't feel like she did. It kind of seems like she's like, you be King, because whenever you're king, you have to worry about all things. You have to worry about taxation, you have to worry about if your people are happy, and the military, and the crops and the trade. And she's like, and if I'm not queen I—and I'm just working on the military, I just gotta worry about the military. Like, I think she preferred it this way, actually.
NATHAN: Yeah. I think she liked fighting.
KATIE: Yeah. I think she liked not having any other responsibilities besides this one very niche activity.
NATHAN: Right? So one thing that we kept reading was that her sister, Zaria fled. And if I could let air quotes.
NATHAN:
Bunny ears. Fled.
KATIE: She fled. Everything I read said Zaria fled whenever her parents died, which you don't say somebody fled when they just like moved and everything was chill. It sounds like almost what went on there, like, why did she—why was she fleeing?
NATHAN: So she ran.
KATIE: She ran so far awa—but why? Like—
NATHAN: She had to get away.
KATIE: But why? So mama had named Zazzau, she had renamed the capital Zaria. I'm—the only thing that I could come up with was, well, maybe the other two siblings resented Zaria.
NATHAN: Ohh?
KATIE: Because, like, oh, you must have been mama's favorite, and now that she's gone, maybe the three of them didn't get a lot, like, I don't—this is all speculation.
NATHAN: I like— I like this theory, but you know?
KATIE: Okay.
NATHAN: We're not 100% historians here.
KATIE: I would love to go down a rabbit hole about like why Zaria fled, but I couldn't. So I had to make my own story, and that story is a soap opera.
NATHAN: So her brother Karama ruled for 10 years. And by this time, Amina was like a general, whole damn army, like, not too shabby bitch.
KATIE: Not too shabby at all. No. And she was busy for those 10 years. Because her brother launched four military campaigns. So obviously [22:18]
KATIE: [22:19]. Yes.
NATHAN: He speaks French.
KATIE: Well, you can count to four in French, but okay. But no. Like, I think it was interesting that it was like, yeah, the— when her mother was in charge, it was a time of peace. And so it was like, why are you building up that army? And I mean, it's like, mind your business. And so, like, as soon as her parents are gone, they go into military campaigns and start acquiring more land. Fucking shit up.
NATHAN: Yeah, yeah. She's like, Hey, let's go get them lands over there. And they're like, okay, let's do that.
KATIE: Let's go get those lands over there.
NATHAN: So, basically, Zazzau had grown in strategy. In the corporate world, we would call this an acquisition plan.
KATIE: It's growth strategy, it's synergy. We are circling back to this acquisition plan.
NATHAN: Sorry [23:13]
KATIE: Her growth and acquisition plan were to acquire all the other Zazzau States.
NATHAN: Yeah. So now fast forward.
KATIE: And?
NATHAN: Karama dies. It doesn't appear that he fought along with his troops. So not like a battle side assassination.
KATIE: Yeah.
NATHAN: But just like—
KATIE: Problem?
NATHAN: —medieval problems.
KATIE: Probably just medieval people problems, which means the flu, a paper cut witchcraft also.
NATHAN: Yeah, yeah. The Plague.
KATIE: The Plague. Ear infection.
NATHAN: It doesn't matter.
KATIE: Yeah, lots of— lots of things.
NATHAN: He doesn't have kids. He doesn't have heir, so now we're looking to be like, who's gonna be monarch? Oh, wait, there's this beautiful black woman next [24:08]
KATIE: And who is a—who is a fierce fucking warrior. Amina, you're up, you're queen. And I think that's gonna be a good time for us to refill our drinks and take a quick break. How do you feel about that?
NATHAN: [24:20]
KATIE: Yeah. Alright, we'll be right back, bitches.
[theme]
Ashley Flowers: Some mysteries can be solved by looking at the facts. But in some cases, answers lie in the unknown. I'm Ashley Flowers, and each week on my podcast So Supernatural, we explore some of the world's most bizarre occurrences and unravel their possible explanations, no matter how strange. Because sometimes to get to the truth, you have to look beyond what we know to be reality. Listen to So Supernatural now wherever you get your podcasts.
KATIE: And we're back. The king—the king is dead. Long live the Queen. Yeah, so Amina is now queen. And luckily, we're in a society that isn't anti female ruler. Like they're no strangers to matriarchal societies, which I wish I knew one. Like, how nice would that be? Yeah.
NATHAN: I know right. So there was, like no opposition to her being Queen, though.
KATIE: I love it. I love it. Like it doesn't seem like the men in her society had fragile dick energy about a woman running shit.And that's as beautiful. It's a beautiful story.
NATHAN: I love it. I love it. It's like a non issue. Like her having a uterus is like, but [25:55]
KATIE: No, they're just like, okay, but she— she's already been running the military for—God. At this point, well over a decade, you know. So they were like, yeah, we trust her. It makes sense. It was a non issue, like you said, that's the perfect way to put it, Nathan.
NATHAN: So Amina took the throne at a time when Zazzau was just thriving.
KATIE: They were living the best lives.
NATHAN: Living their best life, like trade routes. Everything is going great for them. So she's got money, honey.
KATIE: Yes.
NATHAN: And she's funding that military, honey. Even though—
KATIE: We don't—we don't love it. But like we've al—we've already given the disclaimer with a man, we wouldn't love this with a woman we do. We all have biases, just let it be.
NATHAN: Yeah. And she doesn't like—she seems to be profiting from all of this shit but—
KATIE: Yeah. Well, she looks at the other Hausau States. And she's like, I— they are also profiting from the trade routes. If all of the states belong to me, I would be getting all those trade like that, and that—
NATHAN: I love this journey for her.
KATIE: Light bulb. What if all the states did belong to me? What if all the trade routes were mine? Wouldn't that—wouldn't it be nice if [27:18]
NATHAN: [27;17] So, she's queen now. In her 40-ish because that [27:30]
KATIE: Ish, because we don't know that ish, yeah.
NATHAN: Yeah. So you think at this point she'd be like, hey, I'm just gonna call ye old shots from my old he old palace.
KATIE: Because she's 40 and she's medieval for— I guess this is Renaissance, not Medieval, but whatever. She's 40, then not 40 now or 40 is the new 20. She was 40, then when 40 was 60.
NATHAN: But when military is military-ing, she gets FOMO. She gets FOMO, like, hardcore.
KATIE: Yeah. She's like, I need to be with my troops.
NATHAN: Yep.
KATIE: She wants to be in the room where it happens. Yes, absolutely.
NATHAN: Yes. So she was.
KATIE: So, she was.
NATHAN: So three months after being crowned queen. Amina starts a third T4 year campaign. 34
KATIE: 34.
NATHAN: I barely over that age. That's 34 years.
KATIE: Barely. Yeah, no, yeah.
NATHAN: A little baby.
KATIE: A little baby. Yeah, that's 34 years. And she— that—hat's just insane. Basically her first order of business. After she gets crowned, she makes this speech and she tells her, people re-sharpen your weapons. Like she has got shit to do. Let's get to work. Fun fact—
NATHAN: I love it.
KATIE: Fun fact, one of the things that they traded in Zazzau was metal works, because they had a lot of—they had a lot of, like, really skilled blacksmiths in Zazzau that the other states didn't necessarily have. She was the first one in the area to introduce metal armor for her soldiers.
NATHAN: Oh, wow.
KATIE: And obviously, if you have metal armor and the other people don't, you're gonna have a advantage. So I think that's very innovative. There's some argument— go ahead.
NATHAN: Could she have seen it from, like, a European person?
KATIE: Well, there's some argument that there was this other King in Zazzau that was like— or not Zazzau. There was this other king in Hassau that was like, playing around with metal armor, and then she basically just like copy pasted. Or she may have also—
NATHAN: I love this for her.
KATIE: They both may have seen a European person—
NATHAN: Control C, control, V.
KATIE: Control C, control V, put it over here. They also both could have seen a European soldier, like coming through their markets, coming through their trade routes for whatever reason and seen it. But regardless of whose idea it was, she is usually accredited with the one for widespread use of metal armor. Which is just so fucking smart, if your whole thing is war, give the people protection.
NATHAN: Right. It's like I love metal.
KATIE: Yes, yes.
NATHAN: So she expanded the military at this point because, uh, land, wealth, money, y'all—
KATIE: Y'all.
NATHAN: —really?
KATIE: No, she was owning this big chunk of this trade route, like in— in the Sahara Desert, to and from the like, if you're in the Southern part of Africa, you have to go through the Nigerian trade route that she has created to get to the rest of the Sahara Desert. Which brings you to like Egypt. Which also brings you to like Portugal and shit like that. And she is owning all this land, and it's—
NATHAN: One more time.
KATIE: Show, kiss. Owning.
NATHAN: I love this.
KATIE: Yes. So I put into Google all the lands that it said that she conquered in Google Maps. So the most Northern was this border town called Katsina, and the most Southern was a place called Nupe. And one of the articles I read that I've linked to in the show notes, call it the middle belt of Nigeria. And that's exactly what it looks like. It's just like this, that— this route up the middle of Nigeria to the very, very border where it's just like she owned all of this route for trading. So, like she was making so much money, yeah.
NATHAN: Basically. Which is genius.
KATIE: Yeah.
NATHAN: Like making a national trade
KATIE: Because, I mean, when we talk about Egypt, like they have been trading with other continents from Egypt since ancient times. So for her to open up this route that opened up to all of that trade, to this other parts of the world, it's just—it's just huge for her people. Yeah. She's not messing around, is what we're getting there.
NATHAN: Yeah, right. So one thing Amina did that is, like, still evident today, was she built walls around cities, which is huge. Huge.
KATIE: Huge.
NATHAN: Anytime she conquered her city, she like, built a wall around it.
KATIE: Yeah.
NATHAN: So this served as number one, a sign that this is my—
KATIE: Do not touch.
NATHAN: No. Yes.
KATIE: Do not touch.
NATHAN: No touchy—no touching my landy. My landy, no touching.
KATIE: Mine.
NATHAN: And number two, it was a sign to the people that living in this city now, I'm gonna protect you. Like I've build a wall.
KATIE: I'm keeping other people out. Yeah, yeah.
NATHAN: Yeah. So she called them gun noir Amina, which translates to Amina Walls.
KATIE: Yeah. I mean, I put my name on it too.
NATHAN: Yes. Right?
KATIE: I wish we had some Katie walls.
NATHAN: Katie walls.
KATIE: I would love that. These are my walls, these are Amina's walls. She built so many throughout the country that people started to basically go, huh, that's a cool idea, and adopted the practice. And even now, modern day, Amina walls stand still through all throughout Nigeria and other parts of Africa as well.
NATHAN: Amina Walls. Amina walls.
KATIE: Amina Walls. Yes.
NATHAN: So basically, for a time, she's kind of like a Roman Emperor at the time.
KATIE: Yeah.
NATHAN: So she's conquering lands. Um, she's letting people live amongst their own.
KATIE: Like, you can have a little bit of autonomy, but you still gotta pay taxes to me, you still gotta pay fealty to me. It reminds me of, like when we talked about, like Eleanor of Aquitaine, and how Aquitaine was its own place, but they still had to pay taxes to the King of France. Kind of like that. And in return—
NATHAN: So they have to like even give their soldiers over like—
KATIE: Exactly. Give— pay me taxes, give me soldiers, and in return, if someone else comes in, I'm gonna fight for you. One very specific story that I read that I just found interesting was it was like one of the city's tributes to her. And I have to imagine this was a big fucking deal, if it is, you know, carried on through this many generations of storytelling. Is that one king sent her 40 eunuchs and 10,000 cola nuts. And all I could think was—
NATHAN: Well, eunuchs had their cola nuts cut off.
KATIE: Ohh.
NATHAN: So that's where they got the cola nuts.
KATIE: All I could think of is—
NATHAN: Poor eunuchs, no balls. That must suck.
KATIE: I—I wish I knew the dollar to eunuchs conversion rate. Like what—
NATHAN: Dollar to balls, what's the ratio here?
KATIE: Like, all I'm imagining is like, here's 40 eunuchs and just being like, um, thanks. And also the person that had—
NATHAN: I think 5 eunuchs [35:27] —
KATIE: The person had to sit down and count 10,000 nuts, like—
NATHAN: I have so many jokes right now. Nuts on nuts, on nuts.
KATIE: Anyway. No, I'm just— I just thought that was such an interesting story. Like, since it was, like, obviously a notable transaction, I was like, is that good? Like, is that a lot of eunuchs? I don't know. Like, I don't know—
NATHAN: How many nuts is too many nuts?
KATIE: How many—like, why do you nee— anyway, let's move on.
NATHAN: So we've talked about battle and money and walls.
KATIE: Oh my.
NATHAN: Let's—okay Dorothy. So let's talk about her love life. Like she had no interest in having a husband, but you know, these pipes gotta get cleaned every now and then.
KATIE: What did you just—what? These pipes gotta get cleaned?
NATHAN: Sometimes she gotta just clean these pipes.
KATIE: Is that a thing people say about—
NATHAN: No, it's [36:39]
KATIE: [36:41]
NATHAN: It's not, it's a Nathan saying. I'm very sorry.
KATIE: I was like, what did I missed?
NATHAN: I apologize. I—
KATIE: Nathan. Nathan.
NATHAN: Thats was great. Brilliant.
KATIE: But no. I mean, she's got needs. These—these pipes gotta cleaned.
NATHAN: Obviously I have needs. Wow.
KATIE: So the story goes. The legend is—Nathan, do you want to take this legend, or do you want me to tell the legend?
NATHAN: So the legend is that they would conquer some people, and she'd be like, well, I'll take one of you as my husband. Might conquer your shit. I'll marry you.
KATIE: Yeah.
NATHAN: I mean, same, like, marry me, right here, right now.
KATIE: Right now.
NATHAN: Yeah. And then the two would spend like, this passionate, love night fucking all night together. And then the next morning—
KATIE: Maybe. I don't know, like, what if she picked a guy that was, like, a dud, like, okay, you're gonna be my husband, and then, like, he ends up just being like, well, this has never happened to me before—
NATHAN: Gradual dick energy? Yeah.
KATIE: —you know, and it's just like— Yeah. Anyway.
NATHAN: So if that happened, she would just obviously have them executed.
KATIE: Well, either way, she would have them executed.
NATHAN: She's like a praying mantis, right?
KATIE: What we're getting at is she would be like, you're my husband for the night, and then the next morning, she would execute that person. She would have them—
NATHAN: I love this journey for her, and I don't want to.
KATIE: I call bullshit on this. I get that it adds, like, just like, a level of like she did, what nail to her story, but it just makes me feel like somebody along the way had it— had to add a level of sex to it that wasn't necessarily that. Like we ha— I don't love the femme fatale trope, and it feels like that's what someone was just adding.
NATHAN: Yeah, like, super badass, that she has that, like, femme fatale sort of thing, but not really what I think she was about. At the end of the day.
KATIE: Well, I mean, if she, if she wanted to take lovers, she would have just taken lovers without having to kill them the next day. Like, like, let's— let's look at Catherine, the Great, a woman who was never officially remarried, but had plenty of lovers. When you're a woman in power, no one's gonna call you out for hooking up. And so I don't— I don't love this story of her marrying a man, sleeping with him, killing him the next day, because it just seems—
NATHAN: I kinda love it like—
KATIE: Okay. We can agree to disagree. Yeah.
NATHAN: Disagree. Like I kind of love [39:23]—
KATIE: But this also wasn't in, like, like we were saying earlier, there's the oral tradition. But then there was, like, that one guy a 100 or so years.
NATHAN:[39:30]
KATIE: Yeah, like, somebody actually wrote down her story, that Bello guy that lived a couple, like, 150 years after her, and in his story and his retelling of her, there's nothing about the black widow spider vibes here, it's just about her conquest. And so somebody, in my opinion, added on this, the sexy murdery part of it later.
NATHAN: I love this sexy murdery.
KATIE: I honestly just think it's kind of sexist. Like she couldn't just be—
NATHAN: Yeah. Totally.
KATIE: Is she—yeah, that's why they've added that.
NATHAN: She had to murder people. She [40:08]
KATIE: She had a—she couldn't just fuck a guy, if she wanted to fuck a guy, she had to murder them to make it—
NATHAN: She absolutely could—
KATIE: But anyway.
NATHAN: —and she wanted to, because she's powerful and wonderful.
KATIE: But who knows. That's the— that is part of her story. I kind of wanted to leave it out, but a lot of people find it interesting. So that is part of her legend.
NATHAN: Yeah. So she spent like 34 years of her reign fighting on the battlefield, and we don't exactly know how she died, but we do know that she lived a long life in 15th Century.
KATIE: For someone in the 15th century or 16th century, yeah, that was a really long life.
NATHAN: That's like 35?
KATIE: Who knows, she would have been in her 70s.
NATHAN: No, I know, I know. So there's a lot of debate on where she died, but none of the arguments say that she actually died in Zaria. Leads me to think that she would have been just like riding out with her army, fighting battles.
KATIE: She was literally ride or die. Yes.
NATHAN: I love this of her.
KATIE: Because she was consistent. Yes. She was so consistent, absolutely. Consistently fighting, consistently getting more money, consistently extending her power. Yes. Like we said in her death, we don't really know what happened. And then after her death, it's also incredibly blurry, like some say, Zaria came back to be queen, but it appears that after the rule of Amina, female authority took a nosedive. Like they're—
NATHAN: Lame.
KATIE: I know.
NATHAN: Lame.
KATIE: Do not love that journey for human hood.
NATHAN: Pussy needs to hold the power.
KATIE: Pussy needs to hold the power. Yeah, oh my god. Where'd you get that from? Did you just come up with that? We need to put it on some merch. Pussy needs to hold the power.
NATHAN: Pussy hold the power. Genius. I don't know where I come up with this.
KATIE: So after her reign, it seems female leadership really took a nosedive in Nigeria, which—
NATHAN: I don't like this.
KATIE: —which is lame, but welcome to history class. This is what happens. Being a woman kind of sucks all the time in history. However—
NATHAN: Her— her legacy is huge, like—
KATIE: Huge.
NATHAN: She set up trade routes that benefit a Zazzau for like, years, years and years.
KATIE: Years, and years.
NATHAN: We still got Amina walls all over the place like she is doing some good shit.
KATIE: Yeah. She left her mark, and that's why a lot of people are like, no, this was definitely a person that existed. We've got these walls, we've got these obvious signs. The Zazzau would in the 1800s be conquered, and then Nigeria, later would be conquered by the British, altogether.
NATHAN: Surprise, surprise.
KATIE: That was kind of like the British Empire's thing like—
NATHAN: Let me just, [43:22]
KATIE: Let me just scooch on in here. Let me just scooch on in here, hey. But they—I believe it was the British that renamed the town Zaria again, which— which is actually a very, I think that's a very pretty name. I wonder— I wonder if the mom just named it Zaria, because it was a pretty name like— So let's talk a little bit about like, her legacy in modern day Nigeria is still obvious, like she is just a huge cultural—
NATHAN: Icon? Legendary?
KATIE: Icon. Yes, legend.
NATHAN: It's like hello. Finally—
KATIE: There is a really badass statue that stands of her outside of the Nigerian National Arts Theater. I put it here in the show notes. What a badass statue. Look at that, Nathan, describe it to us.
NATHAN: So she's on a horse, and she— very, very proud about it.
KATIE: Yeah.
NATHAN: She's even got, like, a wand.
KATIE: It's a sword, Nathan. Did you say wand? Do you think she was at Hogwarts, Nathan? Why would she have a wand?
NATHAN: Yes. Absolutely Ravenclaw all the way.
KATIE: She is on a horse with a sword mid battle, not a wand.
NATHAN: Looks like a wand. She—
KATIE: Anyway.
NATHAN: —She's on a horse with a sword.
KATIE: Sword.
NATHAN: She's about—she's about to kill some bitches.
KATIE: I would love to see this statue in real life, because I can't really zoom in enough, but like it looks like she is just—it just looks like the depiction of a fierce fucking woman in the depths of battle, and I love it, because we don't get that in history a lot of times, so.
NATHAN: I agree. So let's cheers.
KATIE: Let's raise a glass.
NATHAN: Because she's a badass.
KATIE: Yes.
NATHAN: Queen Amina. Cheers, bitch.
KATIE: I love her. Oh, my God, love her. Alright. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Cheers, bitches.
NATHAN: Hope we weren't too trashy.