Episode 396: Dryads
/It’s summer and we’re vibing with nature, which means we’re talking about the tree spirits of Greek mythology: Dryads! Also if you’ve ever wanted to hear the Ancient Greek version of Mamma Mia? We’ve got you.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of incest, suicide, genitals, sexual assault, blood, slut-shaming, death, animal attacks, animal death, and child endangerment.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends season 3 of The Bear.
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
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About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, since it's summer, and we are kind of in our peak of growing and gardening season here in New York, I've been thinking a lot about nature spirits.
AMANDA: Of course. You're spending time out there in the garden. You're seeing the bugs, and the birds, and the butterflies, and bees. And just thinking about, like, all the wonderful things that nature has going on every single day as we type away at our desks in— in our homes.
JULIA: Yeah. It's just kind of nice like— I— I was realizing my mental health gets so much better when I just see green outside my windows. Like, the minute my trees in the backyard started filling in, I was like, "Ah." I can feel myself emerging from the, like, mental health cocoon I had wrapped myself in all winter.
AMANDA: Totally. But Julia, am I getting the sense that we're talking today about some of the spirits and folklore that maybe animate some of that growth?
JULIA: Yeah. So when I think about nature spirits, one of the first things that comes to mind for me, because it's my specialty. It's the thing that got me into mythology in the first place. That is the dryads of Greek mythology. And dryads—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —in my mind, seemed like something that is like a pretty clear image, but I have to ask when I talk about a dryad, Amanda, what comes to mind?
AMANDA: Well, Julia, I think of like a— a sort of cloud of steam or fog in the shape of a lady.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Floating its way out of a tree trunk. So I— I'm sort of imagining like the— the spirits of trees is what comes to mind for me. I don't know if that's right or wrong.
JULIA: I mean, Amanda, right on the money. Dryads are tree spirits.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Specifically, they are nymphs of trees, which nymphs in general are kind of the personifications of nature in Greek mythology. There are nymphs of springs which are the Naiads. There are sea nymphs, which are the Nereids. There are ocean nymphs which are the Oceanids. There are mountain names which are the Oreads, et cetera, et cetera. So we are talking about dryads, which are tree nymphs. But in fact, they are originally even more specific than that.
AMANDA: Really?
JULIA: Yes. So originally dryads referred to the nymphs of oak trees, not just all trees, just oak trees.
AMANDA: Fascinating. Why— why were oaks something special? Were they, like, bigger and older?
JULIA: Well, oaks in general, were associated with Zeus, and Zeus being the— the, you know, king of the gods, basically.
AMANDA: Fuck father, yeah. We know.
JULIA: Exactly. The fuck father himself. It was important that like, "Oh, if we're going to talk about, like, spirits of something, we should be talking about the trees that are specific to our boy, Zeus.
AMANDA: Fair.
JULIA: It wasn't until later that it began to be used as this kind of an overarching term for all tree nymphs. And translating it from the Greek, dryad literally means oak.
AMANDA: Well, that'll tell you.
JULIA: I mean, I wish there was more fun etymology to it, but sometimes things are just literal, and that's fine.
AMANDA: That's okay, too.
JULIA: So once dryad kind of became a general term for tree spirits, the category was sort of further broken down into dryads of various different trees. And we'll break them down a little later in the episode. But what we have are the hamadryads, which were the ones that were specifically associated with oak trees. And were, like, so connected to their trees that if the tree died, the hamadryad would die with it.
AMANDA: Oh, I sort of assumed that of all dryads, but maybe they can move between trees.
JULIA: Yes. I think in general like— it was like, "Ah, yeah. You know, we're associated with this kind of tree." And so in general, they would be kind of all over the place. Often they would choose a specific tree, but it's only the hamadryads that would be their life force was so connected to it. And I'll talk a little bit more about that later.
AMANDA: Wow.
Julai: But there were also the Meliae, which were associated with ash trees. There were the Caryatids which were associated with walnut trees. There were the Epimeliads, which were associated with fruit trees, usually specifically apple trees, as their name kind of implies. And the Daphnaie who were the names associated with laurel trees. There were also the Oreiades who were the nymphs of conifer trees, specifically mountain conifer trees. I don't really know if there's much of a difference between like a conifer and a mountain conifer, but specifics are important, I guess.
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: So all in all, all of these kinds of dryads were considered these, like, minor goddesses, though it should be noted that not all trees were associated with the dryad. So like normally dryad trees were found in sacred groves rather than just, like, randomly found in a forest or nature.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Though, you know, that could happen. So you had to be a little cautious about things. I'm really not sure if it's one of those situations where like sacred groves are sacred because they contain dryad trees, or if it's that dryads were just tied to trees that happen to grow in sacred groves. It's a real, like, ancient Greek chicken or the egg situation.
AMANDA: The first one seems more likely to me, because the— you sort of like— you walk in, there's a sense of presence to a sacred grove, I— I would imagine. I've certainly felt that when walking around, you know, in nature myself, and it feels more likely that I would derive the presence from the fact that there are dryad-occupied trees nearby than the dryads being, like, attracted to groves that are made sacred by something else, which I don't know—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —who else would do that, or what else would do that. But it seems to me that like the presence of the dryad is what would kind of attract other forms of like, you know, sacredness.
JULIA: But we do have plenty of gods that are associated with, like, nature and that sort of thing. So, like, you know, could have been like a grove made sacred by Artemis, and then all the dryads showed up and were like, "We're here to party. What's up?" Or like—
AMANDA: Also very happy.
JULIA: Or like someone like Pan or even like, you know, just like wilderness gods in general, I think, might have— already had sacred groves that the dryads were attracted to.
AMANDA: Fair enough.
JULIA: But speaking of the kind of chicken or the egg, let's talk about a— not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles situation. And talk about dryads versus hamadryads.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: Now, hamadryads are nymphs of oak trees, just like the more specific definition of a dryad that I mentioned earlier. And we already know that dryad means oak, but when you add the prefix of hama to it, it adds the meaning of, like, together or concurrently, which makes a lot of sense, because as I mentioned earlier, they are the ones that are born bonded to a specific tree, and their life is connected to the life of that tree.
AMANDA: Right on. And yeah, I— I guess I've been picturing the dryads as having, like, some amount of corporeality or a sort of like spiritual body that is different to the tree itself. But it sounds like this, the hamadryads specifically, are like very intertwined.
JULIA: Yes. I— I want to keep in mind, like we're going to talk a lot about like nymphs and dryads and stuff like that. These are both literal and metaphorical personifications of trees. So there are many stories where it's like, "Ah, you know, the— the dryads were out there dancing around in the fields, and then a hunter came across them, and they turned back into their trees."
AMANDA: Got it.
JULIA: And then there was, like, this also idea that like the trees exist, and the dryads can kind of just like merge with them a la, I don't know, like Shadowcat from X-Men or something like that.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: All right. So— but that's like kind of the— the vibe that you should be picturing in your head when we talk about these stories.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: So there are some interpretations that hamadryads, like I said, were the trees themselves, whereas other versions, the dryad is like simply the spirit of the tree and can exist outside of it. But as I mentioned earlier, if an oak tree was to die, then the hamadryad that was connected to that tree would also die. And because of that, it's a bit of a theme that features heavily in stories about hamadryads. There's a lot of stories about mortal beings, basically, having to ask the gods or ask for a sign from the gods before cutting down a tree, just to kind of like have the permission for fear that they might harm or kill a hamadryad and be punished by the gods for that misdeed.
AMANDA: Good, Julia, because that was a question number one on my mind was, how do you go ahead and construct a dwelling, or a table, or like a flute without harming a dryad potentially?
JULIA: Yeah. I think a lot of it would be like you would— you had already felled trees, like that—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —fell because of nature.
AMANDA: Probably a good call also.
JULIA: Exactly. Or you would, like, put a prayer out to the gods and be like, "Hey, just want to make sure, is it cool if I cut this tree down? If no one says anything, I'm gonna take that as a yes and I'm gonna cut it down."?
AMANDA: Fair.
JULIA: So according to the Greek author, Athenaeus of Naucratis, there were eight named hamadryads, each with a different type of tree associated with them. So again, there's this weird thing of like, yes, dryads are supposed to be specifically for oak trees, but then they're in general kind of associated with tree nymphs in general. And then also the hamadryad is this even further definition of dryads that are soul bound to trees, basically. So his eight that he talks about are Karya, who is the walnut tree. Balanos who is the oak tree. Kraneia, which was the dogwood tree. Morea, which was the mulberry tree. Aigeiros, which was the black poplar, which is a popular one in Greek mythology in general. Ptelea who was the elm tree. Ampelos, which were vines. And Sykea, which was the fig tree.
AMANDA: Now, Julia, is Ptelea spelled like the women-owned brewery in Williamsburg that you and I both enjoy?
JULIA: No, it's spelled with a P at the beginning.
AMANDA: Ah, shit.
JULIA: It's P-T-E-L-E-A. So these eight were said to be the daughters of Oxylus, who was the spirit of the mountain beech forests as in like beeches in the tree, and his sister who was aptly named Hamadryas.
AMANDA: Okay. Very straightforward. I— I know who she is.
JULIA: We don't get a lot from these eight sisters from sources outside of the writings of Athenaeus. But there are several other reported goddesses that are known to be hamadryads, at least in some form of writing. So there is Atlanteia, who was said to be one of the wives of King Danaus of Libya, and was the mother of one of his 50, 50, 50, 5-0, daughters who were known as the Danaides.
AMANDA: That's a lot of daughters, Julia. Even if you have multiple wives producing multiple daughters, that's a lot.
JULIA: I mean, if you have 50 wives, it's only one daughter per wife, so that's not terrible. But you're also like— there's got to be something mythological going on there if you're only having daughters, you know?
AMANDA: Or mathematically, you have, you know, a fairly equal proportion of sons and daughters. And so then you have produced a hundred children—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —which even if you, again, have 50 wives, you know, that's— that's gonna take a few years and that's— that's quite a lot of babies.
JULIA: Yeah. Yeah.
AMANDA: How do you do by— do you like build kind of, like, nursery the size of a house? Interesting.
JULIA: I think you just have to give each wife their own house.
AMANDA: I mean, certainly, but I feel like there's also— also the potential of kids getting mixed up and then— and then you could have a real, like, son of the favored wife versus, you know, son of the least favorite wife scenario. I'm— I'm sensing—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —a lot of mix-ups happening.
JULIA: I agree. And it makes it even more confusing, because there is another hamadryad, who is also said to be a wife of Danaus named Phoebe, because apparently, this guy has a type.
AMANDA: I mean, 50 wives, you have fairly okay odds that more than one of them will be hamadryads.
JULIA: That's fair, that's fair. So the fact that these two are hamadryads, in general, is not really important to their stories, unlike the story of Chrysopeleia, who is another hamadryad.
AMANDA: Now, that name sounds like a flower.
JULIA: Yes, it does. It really does. It kind of looks—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —like a flower name, too. But again, we get so many flower names, Amanda, from Greek mythology.
AMANDA: It's— it's very true. I'm basically saying that color blue shirt looks like blue because they— they're— they're essentially a circle.
JULIA: So the story of Chrysopeleia is basically that one day her tree was in the path of a river that had recently flooded and was being threatened to be destroyed, right?
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: However, there was a hunter and future king of Arcadia named Arcas, who happened to come across her before her tree was destroyed. And he manages to reroute the river by damming it, basically, saving Chrysopeleia is and her tree because, again—
AMANDA: Handy.
JULIA: —they're combined, they're together.
AMANDA: Julia, love when you come across a handsome stranger in the woods and he saves your tree from flooding.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Well, so did she, because she was so grateful she ends up becoming his lover and/or his wife, and they have two children together.
AMANDA: What a meet cute. I mean, come on, like rom-com authors, what are we doing? I love this.
JULIA: What's not to love?
AMANDA: I love this.
JULIA: What's not to love?
AMANDA: It's— it's infrastructure. It's trees. It's, you know, using smart design to help nature do what it needs to do without imperiling a hot lady tree. I love it.
JULIA: Now, this is interesting, because there are several stories when we're talking about dryads and nymphs in general, where the dryad in question didn't start out as a dryad, but rather was either another type of goddess or was a mortal who then became a dryad.
AMANDA: And is that like a good thing for her or is that more like, oh, a punishment, now, you're a flower?
JULIA: It's a mix.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: So the first one I'm going to tell you is it's a good thing.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Though the beginning of the story is not great. So this is a hamadryad. She was a mortal woman who transformed into a hamadryad. Her name was Byblis. And so the story kind of starts with a weird sort of, like, incest among mortals is taboo story, which is a little strange. I'm not going to get into it, really. But basically, this girl falls in love with her brother. The brother rejects her. She attempts to die by suicide, but instead is saved by the hamadryad who kind of like see that she's in heartbreak and pain, and put her into a magical sleep.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: And then when she awakens, she finds that she has been transformed to a hamadryad herself and she thrives in her new life.
AMANDA: That sounds like a win-win all around.
JULIA: That's a real win-win. That's a real girl's girl situation. I appreciate that. I love a girl's girl in mythology.
AMANDA: So true. They're like, "Bestie, let me take you away from your old life and give you a new one where you are going to thrive."
JULIA: You're like, "Bestie, he didn't deserve you anyway. And also now you're going to be a hot tree spirit." Isn't that nice?
AMANDA: Exactly, exactly.
JULIA: There is another instance of a hamadryad who was not born a hamadryad, but later became one which is the story of Dryope which, again, the name is pretty classic.
AMANDA: Aptly named.
JULIA: She was the daughter of Dryopes who was known as the oak man king.
AMANDA: Julia, this— I'm sorry. This girl is destined to become a dryad. I— I don't know what accident of birth made her born a human, but, like, she is like— this is a real like Moony Moonerson situation where she is— she's destined to become a dryad.
JULIA: Yes, exactly. So there are two different versions of this story about how Dryope became a hamadryad. One is from our boy, Ovid, the other is by a Roman author named Antoninus Liberalis.
AMANDA: Oh. The free?
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. He's all about freedom, baby.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: In Ovid's version of this tale, Dryope was feeding her baby Amphissus while they were walking along a lake shore when she kind of spots these bright, red blossoms from a lotus flower, to catch her attention.
AMANDA: Nice. I mean, I'm sure this has a— a consequence, because this is Greek mythology, but very relatable to be, you know, walking along the lake shore and see a pretty flower and go, "Wow."
JULIA: And she's like, "Wow. These are so beautiful. I want to give it as a gift to my son who is, you know, suckling at my breast right now." What she didn't know at the time was these flowers were the nymph Lotis, L-O-T-I-S. Not—
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: —T-U-S, who had been transformed into this tree/plant when she was fleeing from the horny god, Priapus.
AMANDA: Got it. And I imagined that that has some relation to the medical term priapism.
JULIA: Yeah. He was famous for his big rock hard dick. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. I— I sense how she could sort of find reprieve as a beautiful flower in the lake instead.
JULIA: I mean, don't we all, baby? Don't we all? So Dryope goes to pluck one of these flowers and the tree begins to bleed. Just— just bleeding. Just a tree that's bleeding.
AMANDA: Well, that's unsettling. Particularly after we spent a month learning about mushrooms.
JULIA: Yes. Yeah, it's pretty bad, pretty bad. So the blood gets on her and she tries to flee. But slowly, she kind of begins to feel her skin transform into bark.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Her feet become rooted to the ground, and she cries out to her husband, who is nearby whose name is Andraemon, who comes running just as she has been transformed into a black poplar tree with the baby cradled in its branches.
AMANDA: Wow. Baby is okay?
JULIA: He's okay. It's all— it's all okay.
AMANDA: Brutal. She just saw a pretty flower.
JULIA: Yes. And so basically, this kind of story in Ovid's mind is like a warning, being like, "Don't pick flowers or stuff that you think— you— just— just don't do it. It could be a nymph. You don't know. Any bush could be a nymph. We don't know."
AMANDA: It also occurs to me, having never breastfed, it must be extremely metal and rad to walk while breastfeeding. And that— that seems like a very impressive feat that I'm sure millions—
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: —of people do every day.
JULIA: I mean, I think as long as the baby latches on, you're probably good. So—
AMANDA: But still.
JULIA: I mean, once the latch on happens, you could probably do some movement.
AMANDA: I just think the— the boobiography of that whole scenario is extremely impressive and congrats to anybody who's done it.
JULIA: Shout out. Shout out to the boobiography.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. You're welcome.
JULIA: While Ovid's version of the story kind of focuses on hubris and her punishment, the story told by Antoninus blames her transformation on the god Apollo, which you will notice is a theme kind of through this episode.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: You'll see. You'll see what I mean.
AMANDA: Okay. Apollo's involvement leads to ladies being transformed into trees.
JULIA: So Dryope as a child would play with the hamadryads in the woods of her father's mountain. Again, her father was the oak man king, so it makes sense. And she would hang out with them even though she wasn't one herself, right? So while she was out there dancing with the hamadryads as she gets older and, you know, more, unfortunately, physically attractive, I guess. She is spotted by the god Apollo, who instantly decides that he wants her. Classic Apollo.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. That's—that's basically what he's in mythology to do.
JULIA: Yeah. Pretty much all— almost all of the men in— in Greek mythology. If you're a god, they're probably horny for just a hot lady.
AMANDA: It happens.
JULIA: So he transforms— and this is just a wild concept, he transforms into a tortoise.
AMANDA: Okay. Unexpected.
JULIA: He kind of, like, walks into the—
AMANDA: Sexily?
JULIA: He just— nope, he's just a tortoise. He just walks into the field that all these dryads are dancing in.
AMANDA: Uh-huh.
JULIA: And they're like, "Oh, my God, he's so cute. Look at him." They're like, "He's gonna be our pet." And they all kind of like form a circle and, like, take turns like hanging out with him and playing with him and stuff like that.
AMANDA: Is he, like, looking up their skirts or something pervy?
JULIA: No, no. He's just like— he wants to be handled by them, I guess.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: And so they all kind of take turns passing him around the circle. But when it's Dryope's turn, Apollo transforms into a snake, which scares away all the other hamadryads and leaves Dryope alone to be assaulted by Apollo.
AMANDA: No. Ladies, we have to stick up for each other.
JULIA: Well, they— they kind of make up for it later. Eventually, she gives birth to Apollo's son Amphissus, and he goes on to build a temple to Apollo in his father's honor. And he forces his mother to become the head priestess of the temple, which is fucked.
AMANDA: Yeah, that's— that's fucked up, for sure.
JULIA: However, her former hamadryad playmates saw her kind of suffering in that position. They're like, "Hey, girl."
AMANDA: "This is fucked, yeah."
JULIA: "This is not good for you. We don't like this for you." So they steal her away. They kind of replace her with a dummy version of her that is made out of a poplar tree. See the connection.
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: And they transform her into a hamadryad who comes and lives with them on the mountain of her father.
AMANDA: You love to hear it, and I'm glad they circled back for her.
JULIA: They did her dirty, but they followed through, and they made up for it. And that's what we appreciate with all women in general.
AMANDA: No hamadryad left behind. That's the promise.
JULIA: Yes, exactly. But Amanda, that's— that's just the stories of the hamadryads. We still have lots of other types of dryads to talk about. But first, how about we grab a refill?
AMANDA: I'd love to.
[theme]
JULIA: Hey, it's Julia, and welcome to the refill. Welcome, in particular to our newest patron, Harley. Harley joins the rank of our supporting producer-level patrons like Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Arianna, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jeremiah, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, and Scott. As well as our legend level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Michael, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. And you too can join them at patreon.com/spiritspodcast where you get cool rewards like ad-free episodes, recipe cards every single gosh darn episode, and so much more. Check it out. That is patreon.com/spiritspodcast. I have a recommendation for you this week, and I have really been enjoying the new season of The Bear. Let me tell you, I love cooking. I love cooking shows, and a fictional cooking show, that is so my jam. It stresses me out, but in a way that like the stakes are low, so the stress is not that big a deal. And it's just something that I really liked about the show. I really enjoy The Bear, and if you haven't checked out Season Three yet, check that out. Speaking of which, I would also love if you could check out Join the Party. Join the Party is an actual play podcast with tangible worlds, genre-pushing storytelling, and collaborators who make each other laugh each and every week. DM Eric and emphatic players, Amanda, you know her, Brandon, and me, Julia, welcome everyone to the table from longtime tabletop RPG players to folks who have never touched a role-playing game before. You can hop into our current campaign, which is getting really good, I might add. Which is a pirate story set in the world of plant-and-bug-folk, or you can marathon through our completed stories like the Camp-Paign which is perfect for summer. A Monster of the Week game set in a weird summer camp. Campaign 2 for a modern superhero game, or Campaign 1 for a high fantasy story. And once a month, we released the Afterparty, where we answer your questions about the show and how we play the game. So what are you waiting for? Pull up a chair and join the party. Search for Join the Party in your podcast app or go to jointhepartypod.com. This episode of spirits is brought to you by Wildgrain. Wildgrain is the first ever bake-from-frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, fresh pastas, and artisanal pastries. Every item bakes from frozen in 25 minutes or less with no thawing required. And the team at Wildgrain just sent me a new box with some delicious stuff inside. It is officially like tomato and gardening season in my household, so when they sent me a bunch of fresh pastas, I was like, "I know exact actually what I'm gonna do with this. I'm going to make some sauce out of the fresh tomatoes in my garden, and I'm going to absolutely love it." And I love the variety of different pasta shapes that they have. 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JULIA: Amanda, we are back. And because we're talking about dryads, I love the idea of a cocktail that you can get most of the ingredients out of your own garden.
AMANDA: Amazing.
JULIA: This one is called The Verdant Garden. It's made with herbal gin, tender herbs, kind of like mint or basil, and even like maybe some tarragon or some dill, just like kind of whatever you have on hand, as well as some cucumbers if you happen to have those in your garden. And of course, my favorite cocktail ingredient, which is, Amanda?
AMANDA: Green chartreuse.
JULIA: Green chartreuse. And also I think I like this, Amanda, the recipe calls for a splash of celery bitters in there.
AMANDA: Oh, delicious. I love a celery bitter.
JULIA: You're not an underappreciated cocktail ingredient in my mind.
AMANDA: I'm a huge fan of celery, a huge fan of celery salts. One of my favorite things to put on like a— a chicken brine or like in a chicken salad. So good. So good.
JULIA: I add a little celery salt when I make tomato soup, and it is like—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Just really— really like brightens it up.
AMANDA: Yeah. Just a little— a little touch of something, and you taste it, and you're like, "Ooh. Ooh. What's this? Ooh."
JULIA: Hmm. What's that all about?
AMANDA: Also an excellent use, Julia, for cucumbers that are— that are a little bruised, maybe you don't want to like bite into them. Maybe they're like a little bit limp, excellent use of them as a cocktail and you can just muddle that shit right up.
JULIA: I 100% agree. I also think you could do like a— kind of those Korean cucumber salads where you do like a—
AMANDA: Like a shiso leaf? Oh, yeah.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Hmm. Hmm.
JULIA: Hmm. Hmm. That would be good. That would be good. All right. So speaking of our gardens, I want to talk next about the dryads of the fruit trees, the Epimeliads. Their name comes from two ancient Greek words. One is a reference to apples and the other which references livestock, like sheep and goats.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Yes. So as such, they are often referenced as caring not only for fruit trees that they were associated with, but as well as the sheeps and goats that were considered sacred to the gods.
AMANDA: That's really sweet. And I— I know that a— a lot of people raise livestock in and around orchard that their droppings can help fertilize the trees, that— you know, fruit that is spoiled or dropped from trees can obviously feed the animals. So love to see that working together.
JULIA: We do. We love to see it. So the Epimeliads are actually specifically mentioned in the story of Jason and the Argonauts as being the guardians of the Golden Fleece, which makes a lot of sense. Again—
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: —we're just tying them so much into both things. They're also described as having white hair, the same color as apple blossoms.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: But also undyed wool.
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: Like, we got it. You know? It's all— it's all the things.
AMANDA: I'm just picturing a lamb frolicking and a lady in like a handspun, you know, wool dress frolicking in a field of apple blossoms. And I'm going to tell you, Julia, it's adorable.
JULIA: It's beautiful. That's the dream that I want for my life, honestly.
AMANDA: But not in like a weird dryad wife way. In like I enjoy both dresses and feminism way.
JULIA: Yes. It's— it's both, and also like, you know, what a simple life we could have. Ironically— or— or maybe not ironically, but kind of fun, since these dryads are associated with goats and sheep, several of them are actually associated with the goat god, Pan.
AMANDA: Oh. Who's not so wholesome and sweet.
JULIA: Yeah, not as bad as some of the other versions of him but, you know, it could be— could be worse.
AMANDA: Actually, adding Pan to this sort of like fantastical image of, like, wearing a nice— a nice dress, frolicking with some sheep and apples, but also imbibing in some of my favorite pastimes, that does sound like a great life. I'm— I'm all for this.
JULIA: And then he's just hanging out underneath one of your trees and, like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —playing some music, like that's not bad. It could be a lot worse.
AMANDA: Playing music, encouraging me to like fuck, and drink some wine. Like I'm— I'm— I'm here for that.
JULIA: There was one Epimeliad named Sinoe, who was said to have been the one to nurse Pan as a baby. Makes sense. One of the supposed mothers of Pan was a dryad named Penelope, not the same as Odysseus' wife, who was said to have given birth to Pan after she slept with all of the men that were pursuing her at the time, making it unclear who Pan's biological father is in that version of the story.
AMANDA: Okay. Don't love the slut shaming. I do love her for her.
JULIA: Amanda, but it's just the plot of Mamma Mia.
AMANDA: You know, that— that's true, but Amanda Seyfried is not a— like half-goat, half-woman. And it feels like there's some kind of implication that, like, having sex with too many people, you know, concurrently or around the same time, yields like a— you know, like hybrid sort of child in a way that I don't love. But I do love that Pan might have like, you know, five to 10 daddies, and one of them probably is Colin Firth.
JULIA: I think one of them has to be Colin Firth.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: He just got time traveled back to ancient Greece.
AMANDA: And he's like, "Somehow Alexander Skarsgard's dad is in the mix."
JULIA: I also just think like she's already associated with like sheep and goats and stuff, so I don't think it's like, oh, you know, because she slept with so many men, she must— that's why she gave birth to a half-goat man, but—
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: —I— I feel you. I understand the concern coming from that story.
AMANDA: Thank you. I'm— I'm being protective of— of my girls over here.
JULIA: I feel you. The last two Epimeliads worth mentioning were actually sisters and the daughter of Helios. One was named Lampetia, which her name means shining. And the other was Phaethusa, which means radiance.
AMANDA: Both beautiful names as well.
JULIA: Both great names, and particularly good names for the daughters of the sun-god.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So these daughters were charged with tending to Helios' sacred herds, specifically his sheep and his cattle. And they were part of the Heliades, which were basically the daughters of Helios. They were associated to with the dryads, because there is a story in which their mortal half-brother, whose name was Phaethon. Well, he was killed trying to drive his father's sun chariot across the sky. And in their grief, they were transformed into poplar trees.
AMANDA: Oh, damn.
JULIA: So that— that's the story of our cool little apple goat girlies. We'd love to see them.
AMANDA: Love them.
JULIA: Apple goat girlies, I think nowadays, would, like, own a farm somewhere upstate that is mostly rented out for weddings.
AMANDA: Yeah, that's pretty good.
JULIA: Yeah. And they like teach goat yoga and stuff like that. I think that would be really cute. That's what I want for them.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Next up, we're going to talk about the Daphnaie, because in my mind their namesake Daphne is kind of the— the quintessential dryad and nymph story. Have you heard the story of Daphne before, Amanda?
AMANDA: Maybe vaguely, but not recently.
JULIA: Okay. We'll— we'll get to it. But Daphnaie refers to, as I mentioned earlier in the episode, dryads of Laurel trees. And Daphne is really the only Daphnaie of real note. And she actually didn't even start out as a dryad, but rather a nyad, which are typically nymphs that are associated with freshwater sources, so like springs and rivers and stuff like that.
AMANDA: Makes sense. They go hand in hand, but tell me more.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, most of these kinds of trees grow along sources of fresh water, so it would make sense that they're like somewhat connected. So there's a couple of different versions of the story of Daphne, but probably the most popularized and well-known version of the tale is from Ovid in his Metamorphoses. So it starts with a feud between Eros and Apollo, after Apollo insulted Eros' archery ability.
AMANDA: Okay. Fair.
JULIA: Now, Eros, famously, yeah, he would use gold-tipped arrows to make people fall in love, while Apollo was famously talented in archery. He was matched only by his sister, Artemis, but still, you don't tell the guy with magic arrows that you're better at archery than him.
AMANDA: Yeah, it's like pissing off your friend with a car. And it's like, you know, you really do have to think to yourself, is it worth pissing off my friend with a car? Because I might feel like I'm right, but also, who is going to take me to Massapequa for all American burgers?
JULIA: That's a great question.
AMANDA: Not me. I don't have a car.
JULIA: What a— what a Long Island pull. I love it. So Eros obviously very pissed, and basically was like, "Well, I'll show you how good at archery I am." And then shoots Apollo with his arrow.
AMANDA: There it is.
JULIA: Which makes Apollo infatuated with the next person he sees, which is the—
AMANDA: Oh, is it a tree?
JULIA: It's the nymph, Daphne.
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: So to vex Apollo even further, he shoots Daphne with a lead-tipped arrow, which basically makes Daphne repulsed by the very idea of Apollo.
AMANDA: Incredible comedy.
JULIA: So Apollo starts chasing after Daphne.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: She's like, "Absofuckinglutely not. I want nothing to do with you." She starts running. He's like, "It's fine. I don't— I don't want to hurt you." But because of this enchantment— and, like, even if she wasn't enchanted, it would be fucking scary—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —to be pursued by a god, especially Apollo, given his history.
AMANDA: Given just his whole thing, frankly.
JULIA: Yes. So she keeps running, which I say, "Good for you, girl."
AMANDA: Fair.
JULIA: Eventually, Apollo manages to catch her, but before he can really do anything to her, Daphne calls out to her father, which is the river god Peneus, who transforms her into a Laurel tree just as Apollo tries to wrap his arms around her.
AMANDA: So then Apollo has a face full of bark.
JULIA: Exactly. So Apollo wraps his arms around her and he's like, "Ah, shit. This is a tree." I really actually love this portion from the Metamorphoses, so I'm going to read it for you, which is, "A heavy numbness seized her limbs, thin bark closed over her breast, her hair turned into leaves, her arms into branches, her feet so swift a moment ago, stuck fast in slow growing roots. Her face was lost in the canopy. Only her shining beauty was left."
AMANDA: Beautiful.
JULIA: Yes. So Apollo arms wrapped around this tree, still in love with her even though she's now a tree. Decides that the Laurel tree would become his sacred tree. And from now on the laurel wreath would be an honor bestowed by the god.
AMANDA: Lovely.
JULIA: Yes. So as such, all dryads associated with Laurel trees were named after the first laurel tree dryad, which was Daphne.
AMANDA: Right on. I'm sorry for Daphne, but I hope she enjoys her life as a laurel tree.
JULIA: Yeah. You know what? Me, too. And as we kind of established, like dryads in general, they're not usually always stuck in their tree form. So she probably was like, "Okay, he's gone." And then was like— was back out.
AMANDA: Good.
JULIA: I like that for her. I hope it's good for her. So the last group of dryads that we're going to be talking about are the Meliae, which are the ash tree dryads. And they're mostly written about by the Greek poet Hesiod, who we talked a lot about here on the podcast. Now, he has a really fascinating origin for the Meliae. So his origin is when the Titan Kronos castrated his own father Uranus, who is the primordial being of the sky, drops of blood were said to have fallen onto Gaia, who is the primordial earth goddess, right? And when those drops of blood fell, the Meliae sprouted from her, growing into ash trees, and their dryad versions.
AMANDA: Very cosmic origins.
JULIA: Very cosmic origins. Kind of cool. Like, I think oftentimes when we're talking about, like, goddesses and particularly, nature goddesses, they don't have very like metal origins. That's a pretty fucking metal origin. You know what I mean?
AMANDA: Yeah. It's— it's usually like born a beautiful human, pursued by a god, became a god or a godly figure.
JULIA: Yes, yes. So Hesiod also claimed giving these guys even more of a cool metal origin, that they were the mothers of the men of Hesiod's Bronze Age. So if you don't know anything about Hesiod, Hesiod was kind of the one who was like, "Oh, well, I'm going to break down all of the, like, ages of men from, like, the Early Age, the Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Bronze Age, the Age of Heroes, et cetera, et cetera.
AMANDA: Got it.
JULIA: The Meliae were the mothers of the men of Hesiod's Bronze Age, with Zeus having either been like the father of these mortals, or having made the mortals like physically out of the ash trees of the Meliae.
AMANDA: Interesting.
JULIA: So they also had the distinction of nursing the infant Zeus, when Rhea hid the infant from Kronos, who at that point had swallowed all of the other children that she had given birth to, concerned that one of those children was going to usurp him.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, the Meliae were the ones that took the baby Zeus to the Mountains of Crete, and nursed him from the milk of a goat named Amaltheia until he was old enough to challenge and defeat his father.
AMANDA: You know, in a Freudian way, that kind of explains Zeus' obsession with transforming himself into animals and assaulting women, and other people.
JULIA: Yeah, because— because his nursing mother was a goat.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Interesting, interesting. There really is only one of the Meliae that we know by name, and that would be Melia, who was one of the lovers of Apollo and the mother of a Theban hero whose name was Teneros, who also became a prophet of Apollo. Because as you might remember, Apollo has that kind of, like, gift of prophecy.
AMANDA: Now, I'm sure it isn't this simple, but I do wish I could take a quiz in ancient Greek mythology and ask a question as easy as like, what is the name of the first Meliae? And I could just feel really smart by guessing the quite obvious answer.
JULIA: Which is Melia.
AMANDA: Exactly. Like, when I would just guess the Holy Spirit in Catholic school, and they're like, "You're not wrong."
JULIA: I mean, yeah, that encompasses two other parts of the— yeah, that makes sense. All right, cool.
AMANDA: Kind of right, kind of right.
JULIA: So in the story that we know of Melia, she either runs away with Apollo or is stolen away by him, and her father who is Oceanus, sends her brother to bring her home. And the brother finds Melia at Apollo's temple in Thebes, but it's unable to get to her. And so he decides to do the very smart thing of trying to set fire to Apollo's temple.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Which, you know, Apollo take super well. He quenches the fire and then he fires an arrow, killing Melia's brother.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
JULIA: And Melia stayed with Apollo until the birth of their child, and then left again to rejoin the other dryads.
AMANDA: Tough. You could just kind of like slip a letter under the door and maybe ask for some help. Maybe, you know, have just like a sit down. No, straight to fire.
JULIA: Yup, no. No, straight to fire. Yeah, not— not your best choice in general.
AMANDA: But a good story.
JULIA: For sure. It's also worth noting that there are a couple of dryads that don't specifically fall under any of the more specific categories of dryad, that we've talked about so far. There was a dryad that was known as Tithorea, who was said to have lived on Mount Parnassus, though we don't get more of her other than her name and where she can be found. Sometimes you just like— you make a reference to something in passing and you're like, "Oh, yeah." And then no scholar ever talks about it ever again. There was a dryad that shared a name with one of the muses, Erato, who was both a priestess and a prophet of the god Pan, and was one of the dryads that was said to have been married to the hunter Arcas, who I talked about earlier on when I spoke about the hamadryad Chrysopeleia.
AMANDA: Yes, hot hunter who knows how to damn.
JULIA: Hot hunter knows how to dam, becomes a king later. Love that for him.
AMANDA: It sounds like they'd give great dinner parties. I'm not gonna lie to you.
JULIA: Oh, my God. Can you imagine? And it's all like— he's like, "Yeah, you know, this is a wild boar that I killed myself, and I cooked it."
AMANDA: Yup.
JULIA: Kind of hot.
AMANDA: Beautiful landscaping because both the river and the tree gods are like, "I'm gonna hook you up, bro."
JULIA: Oh, so nice. I love it. And then finally, perhaps one of the most famous of the dryads was Eurydice who—
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: —you probably recognize from the story of Orpheus and Eurydice. In some version, she's not a dryad. She's an Auloniad, which is the nymphs of mountain pastures and fields. But in general, she is referred to as a dryad.
AMANDA: Cool, but like a nature-related spirit.
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. She is a nymph, regardless. The type of nymph it's often referred to as a dryad, but sometimes more specifically an Auloniad. So the etymology of her name— Amanda, did you know anything about the etymology of your Eurydice's name?
AMANDA: No. Is it don't look at me, Orpheus, you idiot?
JULIA: No, it's either true judgment or wide justice.
AMANDA: Oh. Huh. Interesting.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: I don't think she's treated very justly.
JULIA: Hmm, yeah. You're— you're right. She's— she really isn't. But if you're unfamiliar with the story of Orpheus and Eurydice, Orpheus was the son of the Muse Calliope. And though he was immortal, he was loved by the gods because he's a child of one of the Muses and people loved the Muses. And as such, he was given a lyre by the god Apollo when he was young. And Apollo even taught him how to play the lyre. And Orpheus had a true gift for music where it was said that nothing could resist the enchantment of his song, not his enemies, not beasts in nature, nothing.
AMANDA: And Apollo was like, "Come here, my sweet summer child, let me teach you not just how to play beautiful music, but also how to make terrible decisions."
JULIA: Hmm. Yup.
AMANDA: "Love me, Apollo."
JULIA: Yes. And— and I think Orpheus really took that to heart. He falls in love with the dryad Eurydice, who in turn loved him, was charmed by his music. They ended up being married. Though, like it's almost immediately like— you're like, "Something is going to go wrong here," because the god of marriage ceremonies, Hymen, he predicts at their wedding that their marriage would meet a tragic end. And you're like—
AMANDA: Well, Julia, that's bad. That's bad.
JULIA: Now, Amanda, if the god of marriage ceremonies showed up to your wedding, and said, "I'm here to bless your union, but this is going to end tragically." Would you go through with the wedding?
AMANDA: No, I'd probably attempt to, like, kill the god, or understand why, or do something, because I'm not taking that as an answer.
JULIA: Shortly after that marriage ceremony and all that— that's going on, while dancing with her fellow dryads, Eurydice is bitten by a snake and is killed by the snake's venom.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Kind of struck with grief at his wife's death, Orpheus sings such a sad song that the entire world is moved to tears.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: He descends into the Underworld to attempt to see Eurydice again. He manages to charm even the guard dog Cerberus with his music. And eventually, he's able to present himself before Hades and Persephone, and plays them a song so moving and full of his grief that Hades allows for Orpheus to take Eurydice back to the world of the living with him under one condition.
AMANDA: And Julia, I bet he doesn't violate this single condition, preventing him from like a lifetime of happiness, right?
JULIA: No, of course not. So the single condition is she would have to follow behind Orpheus through the Underworld, and he could not turn around to look at her while they walked.
AMANDA: In, I don't know, a metaphor of trust.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. So Orpheus agrees, but he finds as he is walking out of the Underworld that he cannot Eurydice's footsteps and worries that the gods have tricked him in some way. So when he is nearly at the exit of the underworld, or in some versions when he himself is at the exit, but Eurydice is not yet there, he turns to make sure that she's still there, which traps her into the Underworld forever. He tries to go back down. There's a rule in Greek mythology about how if you are alive, you can only go down into the Underworld once, can't do it twice, only once.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. One exception, one exception. It's a one strike rule.
JULIA: So they are only reunited again when Orpheus is killed by the frenzied followers of Dionysus.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: Yeah, I think there's one version of the story where Dionysus is just like, "I'm fucking sick of his sad song. Kill him."
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: And it's so bad because, like, they end up ripping Orpheus to shreds, but because he is the son of a Muse, his head keeps on singing.
AMANDA: No. Oh, my God.
JULIA: And floats down a river and just keep singing the sad, sad song.
AMANDA: And Dionysus is like, "Get me the fuck out of here."
JULIA: "What the fuck? What the fuck?"
AMANDA: "How?"
JULIA: Yeah, I feel you, Dionysus. I get it. I get it. So, Amanda, of course, we talked about dryads, these tree spirits. There are plenty of other tree in nature spirits that are found throughout the world. We have the Kodama and the Kukunochi in Japan. We have the Ghillie Duh in Scotland, Green Spirits in Myanmar, Yakshis in Hindu tradition, the Leshy in Slavic mythology, and many, many more. And I hope that this is like kind of, like, a fun jumping off point for all of our listeners to dig deeper into nature spirits found around the world, especially for our gardening ConSpiriters to help them feel a little bit closer to whatever they're growing this season in their gardens.
AMANDA: Incredible. This has been so much fun, Julia. I know you've always loved the dryad, and I am so glad to know more about them. And the many forms and stories of dryads that exist in the world. So mostly, I'd say if someone asks you to stop singing your sad, sad song, stop, and otherwise—
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
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