Episode 326: Dr. Faustus
/Buckle up, theater kids, we made a deal with the devil to cover the incredible store of Dr. Faustus. Faustus loves a monologue, Mephistopheles is a beleaguered middle manager, and Marlowe deserves a better legacy than just being compared to Shakespeare.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of religious persecution, death, blasphemy/heresy, blood, misogyny, attempted murder, and beheading.
Housekeeping
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Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this Episode 326, all about Julia, one of my very favorite plays. Dr. Faustus by Christopher Marlowe.
JULIA: Yes. Amanda, kind of keeping with the fact that we are theater kids at heart still and now, and for always. And we recently covered the Oedipus plays. I wanted to bring up another play that really does kind of tie into mythology and folklore, which we haven't really gotten a chance to talk about here on the podcast, and that is, in fact, Dr. Faustus.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: I am sure a lot of people listening they've probably heard the name Faustus or Faustus, or maybe have heard of something about the Faustian deal. And I'm sure most if not all of our listeners know about making a quote-unquote, "deal with the devil". But Amanda, this is a source material that I think you might be fairly familiar with.
AMANDA: Yes. I was lucky enough to study abroad in London, where I took four classes, two of which involves seeing plays every week. And so for 12 weeks in London, I saw two plays a week sometimes more, and spent a lot of time with someone I met on YouTube. And that was my—my— my semester abroad. I saw a production of Dr. Faustus at the Globe Theatre involving Arthur Darvill, who was then playing the companion to Karen Gillans, or the boyfriend to Karen Gillan's companion in Doctor Who, which was incredibly cool and fun. Stood like five feet from the stage, so Arthur Darvill sweat a lot. And I really love this play, and I am so stoked to get to talk about it on Spirits.
JULIA: Was he playing Dr. Faustus in that?
AMANDA: He was playing Mephistopheles, my favorite beleaguered, bureaucratic devil who the whole play is like, please don't do this, and Faustus be like, ignoring you.
JULIA: Ignoring you, moving on.
AMANDA: Moving on.
JULIA: That's incredible. Also, that sounds like a great class where it's just like you go see plays and then you talk about them. That's the dream, the dream!
AMANDA: Yes, and read them. It was—it was great.
JULIA: Amanda, I love that you are so familiar with this one. I really think you're gonna have a lot of fun insight because you've read it, and you talked about it, and you've seen it and it's gonna be a lot of fun. So for the people who are listening here, we are referring to the Elizabethian play written by Christopher Marlowe in 1592, right before Marlowe's death in 1593. But it's also worth noting that the character of Faust was a German legend based on a real man named Johann Georg Faust. So Johann Georg Faust was a Alchemist, an astrologer, a magician during the German Renaissance who lived a very successful but arguably unsatisfying life, at least in his mind, right? And so I guess to like spice things up or something, he decides to make a pact with the devil at a crossroads, exchanging his soul for worldly pleasures and unlimited knowledge.
AMANDA: Haven't we all?
JULIA: Haven't we all? Haven't we all man? And the actual facts of the real-life Johann Georg Faust are a little bit contested. His birth year is assumed to be either 1466 or 1480, a large timespan to have been.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: Debatable. His name is sometimes recorded as Georg rather than Johann Georg or just Georg Johann, it's—no one is quite certain. And the city that he was said to have been born in is contested as well. So basically, we don't know a lot about his earthly life, but we do know that in 1506, he was first recorded as a performer of magic tricks and horoscopes in the German town of Gelnhausen.
AMANDA: Wow. Also, I feel like I know, this was a long time ago, right, almost 500 years ago, but it also feels like the way everyone's grandparents just acted. I asked my grandfather, how old my grandmother who was deceased before I grew up, was and he was like, no, no, no, she's born and I don't know, 1920-1925, I don't know. And I was like, how do you not know?!
JULIA: Was she 20 or 25 when you guys got married? Please.
AMANDA: I know, I know.
JULIA: There's two things there, you know, record keeping unless you were like a king or something was not—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Super common during this time period, so I don't blame people for that.
AMANDA: The fact that we know he was real at all, and there are any mentions of this Faust is incredible.
JULIA: Yes, exactly. So Amanda, over the next 30 years, there are many reports of a man who that is like reported to be him traveling all throughout southern Germany, sometimes as a philosopher, or an alchemist, or a magician or an astrologer, but sometimes also just like being accused of being a fraud?
AMANDA: Sure, yeah. [5:04] may vary.
JULIA: So he was denounced at one point by the church for being a blasphemer and being in league with the devil.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Again, because it's the church, we have records of it.
AMANDA: That's good.
JULIA: So that's one of the few things we know about it, was the church was like blasphemer, don't listen to him.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So that was basically his life until his death, which was either in 1540 or 1541. And the death was reported to have been because of an explosion during an alchemical experiment, which is a wild way to go.
AMANDA: Sounds like high mythology, right? It's like, ah, yes, this you know, this guy was blaspheming all over the country. And you know what, he got killed by the phosphorus.
JULIA: Yes by the phosphorus, oh no! The white smoke of the phosphorus, that's what phosphorus is, right?
AMANDA: Yes, I think so.
JULIA: Great. So even after Faust death, there were—you know, that's when all the rumors star, right? Someone dies, and now you hear everyone being like, oh, I met him on a road once and he turned my donkey into a bale of hay. It's just all stories about that. Once he's dead, everyone's like, oh, no, I did meet him, you know? Like—
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JULIA: —oh, however, when like, met JFK, before he was assassinated, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah, we were actually best friends, right?
JULIA: We were actually best friends, and I miss him. But also yes, he wasn't linked with the devil, my bad. And this is kind of why his like personage, his character became this character of folklore, rather than just being a historical figure. Because, one we don't know a ton about him, so it's a lot of filling in the blanks. And the stories that people were telling, became the folklore itself. And I think that's fascinating part of both history and when history turns people into folklore itself.
AMANDA: 100%.
JULIA: Now that we know a little bit about the real Faust, let's get into Marlowe's Doctor Faustus. Okay, so, Amanda, I know you are very familiar with the opening of this play. But for people who are not aware, we start with a single actor who is acting as our chorus, who introduces the play to us, tells us that this is not a play about war or love, but rather quotes “the form of Faustus's fortunes,” which I think is a great line. So he tells the audience, us the audience how Fautis was born to a poor family in a small town, then moved to the German town of Wittenberg to live with other members of his family, and how he attended the university there. World-renowned University in Wittenberg. He studied and gained the title of Doctor of Divinity and became famous for his philosophizing about theology. Love it.
AMANDA: Until Julia—
JULIA: Yes?
AMANDA: —swollen with cunning of self-conceit. His wax and wings did mount above his reach, and melting heavens conspired his overthrow. For falling to a devilish exercise and glutted more with learning's golden gifts. His surface upon cursed necromancy, nothing so sweet as magic is to him, which he prefers before his chiefest bliss. And this is the man that in his study sits.
JULIA: Amanda, I love this [8:09]. One, I'm so glad you did the swollen with cunning section because it's so freakin cool. So the chorus immediately is and we talked about this in the—the Oedipus plays, but it's very inspired by Greek mythology, right off the bat. We have this chorus member, we have like literal allusions to the story of Icarus, someone who flew too close to the sun, and then was— that was his downfall. And I really just love this idea that right off the bat, we are giving this image of a man who's going to be brought down by his own hubris. Nothing starts off a play better than someone giving us background love— love a little like, background here at the beginning.
AMANDA: This is what—you may wonder how I got here. This is what you missed.
JULIA: Exactly. It's like the freeze frame of the rat jumping out the window.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Ratatouille reference. And then we're just like, we're in it, you know what I mean? But again, this place seems so just like taken off the writings of Sophocles or whatnot. And it I— it's just beautiful. It's awesome. I love it.
AMANDA: Yeah. And I mean, the first two lines of the play of this course as monologue are, not marching now in fields of [9:17] where Mars didn't meet the Carthaginians. Like, they are like this is a story of folklore. We talk about the Romans, we refer to the Greeks like this is our protagonist. And I think it's really fascinating to say things like slightly later in this monologue, right before that sort of biographical section. They say only this gentleman, we must perform the form of Faustus's fortunes, good or bad. To patient judgments, we appeal our plot. So like, hey, wait, I think about it. We're going to enact his whole thing for good and bad, and like leave you at the end to decide if he is evil, or if he is good.
JULIA: And we'll talk about this at the end. But that is such a choice by Marlowe, because like in any other person playwright's hands, this is a morality play telling you, hey, don't do what this guy did. But Marlowe instead, right off the bat is like, I'm gonna let you judge whether or not the decisions that Faustus makes in the story are good or bad, you know? I'm not telling you that he made the right or wrong decision, which most other authors would be like, this guy's a bad guy. But Marlowe specifically sets him up as this kind of like, relatable protagonist. And I think that's really kind of the interesting part here. And I want people to think about that as we kind of enter the story.
AMANDA: Yeah. And something else that we talked a lot about in my class and that scholars and you know, theater people like to debate, is sort of Marlowe versus Shakespeare. They were contemporaries, they were writing, you know, at the same time. When we think about their plays, Marlowe is really only ever mentioned as a sort of like foil or peer to Shakespeare. It's also a very different tax, like plenty of Shakespeare's plays, have a chorus or have a monologue, but it's never quite so straightforward as like, this is the deal today, people. And it's a really interesting format.
JULIA: It really is. And I think that's a great moment for us to slowly move into our setting of our scene here, right? So the play begins with Faustus who, of course, the second we start meeting him, monologuing. There's a lot of Faustus's monologue, like all throughout this entire play, get ready for that. So he's specifically monologuing about education and scholarship. He first thinks about, like, logic as a study of scholarship, and it's like, okay, logic is cool. We love Aristotle, but the point of all of it just seems to be the best at arguing, and I'm already such a great debater, so I don't think logic is going to be the best scholarly pursuit. He then starts thinking about like medicine. And while medicine is like cool, and coming up with all of these seemingly miraculous cures is neat, he's already achieved so much as a doctor and he's famous for that, but that's not satisfying to him enough, you know?
AMANDA: In fact, Julia he says, thou art still but Faust is and a man, would thou make man to live eternally, or being dead raise them to life again? Then this profession where to be esteemed, physic farewell. He like—and in the production, I saw I was like throwing books behind him like a fuck that [12:18]
JULIA: Yeah, fuck this book, fuck that book.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: Next he considers law, no laws, like really petty, it's too trivial. It focuses on the petty squabbles of man, not into it, not about it.
AMANDA: Paltry legacies, please.
JULIA: Divinity maybe? Religion and theology? No, because Christianity says that all men sin and that the reward of sin is death. And if that is the case, what's the point? So why study theology?
AMANDA: The line isn't I remember the line reading, you know 12 years later to this day is the reward of sin is death, that's hard for a book.
JULIA: It's so awesome.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: No, Faustus tells the audience. Religion will not do, he will just have to focus on magic. Quote, “the metaphysics of magicians and the necromantic books are heavenly.”
AMANDA: And Julia here we reach young Amanda's first annotation in her copy of Dr. Faustus.
JULIA: Ohh-ho-ho.
AMANDA: Which is to underline the word heavenly there, because I'm sure we will talk about the like frankly heretical nature of this play. The fact that he is not only and straightforwardly saying ah, yes, no, this man like flew too close to the Sun, tried to work with the devil and he got what he deserved. But he's like enacting blasphemy here on the stage, and calling the— the metaphysics of magicians and necromancers, heavenly.
JULIA: Yeah. And then goes on to say if he can master magic, he will become a mighty God. Heresy all over the place, blasphemy all over the place.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: You can see why the church called the real Faust, a blasphemer.
AMANDA: Exactly. What a world of profit and delight of power, of honor, of omnipotence, is promised to the studious artisan aka become a God.
JULIA: Become a God. Study of some magic, become a God. Seems like a great deal, don't know why not everyone else is doing this. Faust, you're right.
AMANDA: Yeah. No consequences possible.
JULIA: No consequences possible. So from this point, then his servant Wagner enters and Faustus asked him to call upon his two friends Valdes and Cornelius, who he hopes will help him become a better master, the art of magic right? So Wagner leaves to do so. And while he's waiting, two angels one good, and one evil appear in front of Faustus, Because we're not waiting a moment to get into like the real magic of this show, it's happening right away, we're already there. So the good angel is like, my guy put away the magic books, turn to the Scripture instead. Don't go down this path, right? And the evil angel is like no, man magic fucking rocks. Don't listen to this nerd. It's totally fine, don't worry about it. And after that, they vanish and Faustus is like, that evil angel seemed cool. Gonna have to listen to him, magic does seem really cool. Glad he confirmed it for me. Easy peasy.
AMANDA: Yeah. And in fact, as Faustus, like right after he talks about the angels, then Valdes and Cornelius come back in, and immediately without them speaking, Faustus is like, ah, yes, your sweet words have won me at last boys. Like, we know what's going on here. And there both like, we didn't say anything. Like—like he's just—he's just, you know, treating everybody around him as a sort of like object to balance his own ego off of and justify his own actions.
JULIA: Yes. I 100% agree. He's just like— he just needs sounding boards to tell him that his own ideas are good. Like and—so everything that happened so far is like confirmation to him like, oh, yes, I'm doing the right thing, don't worry about it.
AMANDA: Faustus must be a bad hang, but maybe he has like good wine or something if you know these people are still hanging around.
JULIA: Exactly. So Valdes and Cornelius do agree to like, we'll help you figure out the magic stuff. We've been studying it for a while, I bet you could be even better than us. Again, stroking that ego for sure. And then Fautis is like, come have dinner with me, and then they all walk offstage. So I agree with your statement, he probably has just like a lot of money in there. Like whatever you say, my guy, you seem smart.
AMANDA: Exactly. And I mean, again, the man is like the most dramatic protagonist in all of Elizabethian drama, and that's saying a lot. Like the Hamlet's in there, too.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: So Faustus final couplet in this scene is for, air I sleep I'll try what I can do, this night. I'll conjure, thou I die there for. You like, if I die, fuck it. I'm here for legacy babies.
JULIA: Here for the legacy, let me have the legacy. Yaw!
AMANDA: Come on Faustus.
JULIA: Those three exit and then we cut over to these other two scholars who have come to visit the—the famous Faustus, right? And they are greeted by Wagner, who just like spends a lot of time making fun of them, and is like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: You guys suck. Faustus is busy with his two friends, don't worry about it. And the scholars recognize that like the two friends are Valdes and Cornelius, and they're like, oh, those guys are like pretty infamously into the black arts. It's kind of disappointing that Faustus is falling into what they considered quote “that damned art”. So I really—they're just like, were gone, this guy's a lost call us to us now, that's a shame.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: The next scene we're back with Faustus in the evening, and he's just like, fully in the middle of summoning a demon, right? He's like, got the magic circle going. He's chanting in Latin, he's doing the whole thing that we've seen in the movies a million times over. Unknown to Faustus, but visible to the audience, we can see like Lucifer and four of his devils watching as Faustus begins to renounce heaven and God, and religion, and swear his allegiance to hell. Just like really going into a thing that he just decided on this morning.
AMANDA: Yeah, I just wanted to point out Julia before Faustus goes to dinner, he says Valdes, as resolute I am in this as thou to live? Like Faustus, you decided on this five minutes ago.
JULIA: Five minutes ago, he was like call these guys, they're gonna come and now I am like, this is my life now.
AMANDA: I know.
JULIA: Like a guy that gets really into crypto and decides to spend all his money on crypto and then he's like, I'm invested now. This is everything, this is everything. And I'm sure it's gonna end just as well as it does for the crypto goes.
AMANDA: Yeah, exactly right.
JULIA: So he's got this whole demon summoning thing happening. Faustus in his ritual demands that Mephistopheles because I guess he knows his name from one of the books he read or something like that. He asks that Mephistopheles rise to serve him, and he does so appear. So Faustus immediately is like hey, Mephistopheles, get out of here and come back dress like a friar because, quote, “that holy shape becomes a devil best”. Which is again, the heresy and blasphemy happening all over the place here in this play.
AMANDA: Yeah, I can only imagine people like [18:37] and walking out of the theater as this is being performed like this is 10 minutes into the play, this is— they're not like saving this for you know, act five.
JULIA: No, I feel like— I feel like if I was, again, a common person seeing this in the—seeing the play in—probably wouldn't have been in the globe at this point. Would it have been in the globe at this point?
AMANDA: No, there was another theater that he performed at uh—I find it in my book somewhere.
JULIA: Okay, no worries. But I imagine being like just a common person and being like, wow, this guy is saying a lot of bad shit. Hopes up the bad happens to him. I hope he gets his [19:08] you know?
AMANDA: Yeah, exactly. But again, like that—that beginning, you know, the beginning is asking us to have an open mind. And it's a pretty big leap for people living right now.
JULIA: Exactly. 100%. It's like succession, like watching a show about people who are bad and knowing that like hopefully something bad is going to happen to them or like white lotus for example. I think that's—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: —the same— the same linear line or the same kind of like cultural line through those various stories.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: So Mephistopheles disappears when Faustus says, you know, come back to us like a friar. And Faustus like wow, this guy is so obedient, magic is great. I'm so great at magic and then—and then Mephistopheles reappears, now dressed as a monk and it's like, okay, so what can I do for you? And again, Faustus is like so obedient, I want you to be obedient to me, and only to me. And Mephistopheles is like sorry, Chief, I am Lucifer's servant, and only his. And I am really only here because I heard you renounce God, and I'm hoping I could snatch up that sweet little soul of yours.
AMANDA: Exactly right. And Arthur Darvill's performance I thought was really good. I've only ever seen one. but this— this version really stuck with me, where he was really like a beleaguered bureaucrat. He was just like, yeah, like the boss like, and there are definitely moments where Mephistopheles, you know, shows some more spine and really reminds you that he is, you know, the work of the devil. You know, his posture was—was slouched. He was very cowering to, you know, loud noises and I think it's a really fascinating image of Faustus, who literally Julia calls himself, thou art controvert laureate.
JULIA: Whoa!
AMANDA: No one's self-hypes, like Faustus, to Mephistopheles, being like, yeah, I belong to lose verse, so you have to like work that out.
JULIA: He does have like real middle manager energy. I think I wrote in my notes, I was like, wow, Mephistopheles is just like a used car dealer. Where—
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: —you're like making a deal with him. He's like, I'm gonna have to take this to my boss and see what he has to say about this. Faustus at this point upon hearing, like, oh, I want to snatch your sweet little soul. He's like, okay, I guess but like, first, I have questions for you. I need to know like that you're the real deal. And so he asks Mephistopheles about hell and Lucifer, and he finds out that Lucifer and all of his devils were once angels who rebelled against God, and as such, they have been damned to hell forever. Which you would think that Faustus would already know since apparently he did like study theology. And they do kind of talk about this in the Bible, but like whatevs, it's fine, ignoring that fact. But Faustus points out like, hey, if you're damned to hell forever, how are you here on Earth? And Mephistopheles is like, listen, being deprived of the presence of God is hell. So whether we're in hell itself, or we're here on Earth, we're in hell. And Faustus is like, wow, that sounds like sentimental crap, my guy. But hey, I'm gonna do it for you. Listen, I will offer my soul up to Lucifer in exchange for 24 years of your service. And again, going back to the reference I made before, Mephistopheles, much like a used car dealer is like, I gotta take This deal to my boss and see what he has to say, and he disappears, right?
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: And so we get another like little monologue from Faustus here saying, like, if he had, quote, “as many souls as there be stars, he would offer them all up for power”. So that he could like get that power from Mephistopheles.
AMANDA: Yeah, he's like, man, I would give literally anything to Mephistopheles because Mephistopheles can do literally anything. And I can move the continents, I can be an Emperor, I can do whatever I wanted, of course, I would do that.
JULIA: Absolutely. Obviously, we then get— because these plays like Shakespeare, and Marlowe, they all love little like comedic breaks in between the like, main action of the scenes.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: And so we get another little break here with the servant Wagner, who is chatting with a clown, and he wants the clown to become his servant for seven years, right? The clam poor guy considering it, and Wagner kind of mocked him saying that he would sell his soul to the devil, for something as simple as a shoulder of mutton, to which the clown responds, it would have to be a well-seasoned shoulder of mutton. The very good like Elizabethian joke. Very good.
AMANDA: I know. You can really tell like Marlowe was in and out of jail. He was like mixed up with the wrong crowd. He was you know, like doing a lot, he died in like a tavern brawl.
JULIA: Classic.
AMANDA: To a guy with a great name. He tell that he's like spent a lot of time with like, really witty like drunkards to come up with these rejoinders. Or is perhaps the wittiest among all the drunkards he's hanging out with?
JULIA: I also want to be the wittiest amongst all the drunkards I'm hanging out with.
AMANDA: Right, not bad.
JULIA: That's the dream.
AMANDA: Ingrim Frizer is the name of the guy who killed him by the way.
JULIA: Woah, that's wild name, I love that.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: So the clown almost agrees to become Wagner's servant, but then changes his mind. Wagner threatens him with some magic. He conjures two devils who say and like says like, oh, I'm going to carry you the clown to hell, if you don't comply to becoming my servant. And the clown terrified, obviously agrees. And then he asks Wagner if he too can learn how to conjure demons. And Wagner's like, I'll teach you how to turn yourself into an animal. But also it's Master Wagner to you now, buddy, excuse me. Which I don't— I maybe you can explain it to me, Amanda. Do they ever, like explain why Wagner can also summon demons and stuff? Or it's just like, oh, every member of my household has some magic?
AMANDA: I think it's more of the latter. That's not something I've heard discussed, I'm sure you know—I'm sure there's papers on it. But the idea of like access to the dark arts as a contagion that will spread if you are not sort of resolute about your soul, is something, A, in Christian theology that the devil is, you know, temptations are around and you have to be really on guard against it. But also I think that's why we open, we're the only people apart from Faustus and you know, the chorus that we meet, are these other scholars. Like these randos right, who come in and they're like, yeah, that's bad crowd, and Faustus is in with them, and probably bad for him. Where they're really like implying that access to this knowledge, just spreads like a disease and I think anyone in Faustus's household is going to be similarly tainted.
JULIA: I love that theory. That's a great theory, Amanda and I—it's very like Medieval to Renaissance transition of like the idea that if you don't keep your household in order, it will fall into chaos. Like the head of the household is very much the example by which everyone else follows.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And if Faustus is making deals with devils, naturally, the rest of his household is going to be equally corrupted. Perfect, perfect as always. So we cut back to Faustus who—the longer he's like taking to think about it, the more reluctant he is to sell his soul. And we see those two angels return, the good angel returns and tells him that he can still turn back, but Faustus just denies him saying that like God doesn't love me, so why should I love God? Which is again, blasphemy everywhere, throwing the blasphemy all around.
AMANDA: Yeah, there's a reason Christopher Marlowe was arrested for blasphemy and heterodoxy.
JULIA: Yep, that'll do it.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: That'll do it. The evil angel then shows up and it's like, hey, think about all that, like money and power you get through this deal, totally worth it, right? And Faustus is like, damn, you're right, you're right evil angel. And so calls Mephistopheles back, who tells him that Lucifer has accepted his deal. So Faustus just makes the deal, he writes it out in his own blood, but his blood keeps congealing before he can sign the actual deal itself. And Mephistopheles is like really annoyed by this, it's just like I want to go find some fire to loosen up your blood. And while he's gone, Faustus again is like being plagued by this indecision, like even my blood is telling me not to make this deal. Like am I—am I making the wrong decision here?
AMANDA: Yeah, what might the staying of my blood portend? Is it unwilling? I should write this bill? Why streams that not that I may write a fresh?
JULIA: I love that, so glad that you have the book in front of you so we can pull all these great quotes.
AMANDA: Julia, will put on the intent, this is a hot photo of Christopher Marlowe and kept this book around for many years.
JULIA: Solely for how hot he looks on the end.
AMANDA: And by photo of course I mean painting that makes him look like white Jesus, but you know, it's— it's a look.
JULIA: He sure does look like white Jesus huh, yeah. By that time, Mephistopheles has come back and Faustus signed the deal. He then discovers on his arm an inscription that says [27:16], which means man fly. And Faustus kind of like wonders, like what does that mean, but he's distracted because Mephistopheles then presents like just a group of devils who adorn him in like robes, and jewels, and a crown. And Faustus is like, okay, no, this is great. I don't know what I was worried about, this is awesome. So he hands over the contract and then kind of idly wonders where hell is allowed. And Mephistopheles remarked that there is no real location to hell, that it just kind of exists everywhere because hell exists where the damned are cut off from God. Again—
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: —kind of like these really beautiful imageries for like Christianity and the themes throughout, but also like, horrifying when you think about it too much.
AMANDA: Yeah, it really is. And that speech Mephistopheles, from a couple scenes ago, he says, like I–you saw the face of God and tasted the eternal joys of heaven, and tormented with 10,000 [28:12] and being deprived of everlasting bliss. So it's like I— doesn't matter where I am, hell is distance from God, which is in a way like you're saying very traditional and very true, and very like, you know, approaching kind of the rise of like a personal and nonchurch mediated relationship with God, following the Great Schism. This is really poetic and meaningful and like you really sympathize Mephistopheles much more than Faustus as an audience member.
JULIA: Oh, 100% Meanwhile, Faustus is like, sounds fake. Don't worry about that, hell probably isn't even real. Anyway, can I have a wife now, please?
AMANDA: I know it—and also like if— if Mephistopheles is saying, hell is how I feel, and Faustus is like, meh, fuck that!
JULIA: Fuck your feelings.
AMANDA: That sucks.
JULIA: Mephistopheles is like, sure man, whatever. How about have like, nice, pretty she-devil, and Faustus like no, I'd like a real human wife, please. And so the devil is like, okay, here's a book read it carefully, maybe you'll get a wife out of it. Faustus once again, because we'd like to do everything in threes or in magic numbers, wonders if maybe he should repent, not cut himself off from heaven. And then he's like, actually my hearts so hardened, I cannot repent. A wild bind to say, we love it. So he asks Mephistopheles, just a bunch of questions about the universe, the planets, the heavens, the nature of the universe. And when he asks who made the world, Mephistopheles is like can't tell you that because it's quote “against our kingdom”. And when Faustus keeps like pressing and pressing, he leaves in a huff, right? And so again, those two angels, the good angel, and the evil angels show up again and the good saying, it's never too late to repent, man, it's okay. And when Faustus is begins to repent, Lucifer, Beelzebub, and Mephistopheles all enter and tell him, hey, stop, think about God, check out these cool sins instead. They basically do like a pageant show of the seven deadly sins which is kind of fun.
AMANDA: They sure do.
JULIA: How did that look on stage?
AMANDA: Yeah, they—they like put Faustus in the audience, and they had a bunch of actors wearing like robes and huge masks, which would be kind of period-appropriate, come in and like do—yeah little pageantry and it was incredibly fun. Something that you really miss about this shows, is that there was like a live band and they would play transition music, they would, you know, play like fun undertones for those comedic scenes. And there are a number of times, and there's just dancing devils in this play. That's incredibly [30:37] to me to the like a beautiful prose. But at the time, like [30:41] was a variety show, and you want it to have romance you know, funny moments, fighting like all you know, all the kinds of ups and downs, and it was awesome.
JULIA: This play, it does have it all, which we love, we'd love to see it. Faustus is after this little pageantry play, asks Lucifer if he can see hell, and Lucifer is like, sure, I'll take you there later, buddy. But until then, here's a book that can show you how to change your shape. And Faustus like excellent, I love it. Thank you for the gift Lucifer. We then cut to another new character in the next scene, which is Faustus's stablehand named Robin, who has found one of the good doctors' books in his teaching himself some spells. He then chats with the innkeeper named Rafe and they go to a bar together. And Robin has like, I'll conjure up any kind of wine that you want my guy. I know magic because my boss is cool.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: So they leave and then Wagner enters again, this time acting as our chorus, and he tells us some stuff that they probably couldn't actually portray on stage specifically how Faust is travelled through the heavens on a chariot pulled by dragon so that he could learn the secrets of astronomy.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: Couldn't portray that in 1592 on stage, huh, Marlowe?
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: That's fine—that's fine. So He then tells us how Faustus has been on a mission to measure the coasts and kingdoms across the world. And last he heard was heading towards Rome.
AMANDA: Yeah, it's a real situation where you're like, ah, yes, once I get this new job, I live in this fancy apartment, and then you don't get the job and you're like fuck. Or whatever kind of presumptuousness of ah yes, once this contract comes through, you know, I'll get do XY and Z, but the money is not in your hand yet. And Faustus is like literally measuring his kingdom. The man is not an Emperor of the world yet.
JULIA: But Amanda, now he's made the deal, he could be. He could be.
AMANDA: He thinks, he thinks.
JULIA: And so this seems like a great moment to grab our refill before we hear what else Faustus has gotten up to, now that he's made his deal with the devil.
[theme]
JULIA: Hey, this is Julia, and welcome to the refill. I am here, of course, obviously to welcome our newest patron to the Patreon family that is Hanna-Barberian, great name. Neva, and Reka, they joined the ranks of our supporting producer-level patrons like Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Brittany, Froody Chick, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Megan Moon, Nathan, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi. And of course our incredible legend-level patrons Arianna, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Clara, Ginger Spurs Boi, Morgan, Sarah, Schmitty, & Bea Me Up Scotty. And you too can join our Patreon and get cool rewards like tarot readings, bonus urban legends episodes and so much more by going to patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Of course, this is the time where I tell you a little bit about stuff that I'm enjoying listening to. reading, watching lately. And I have to recommend the book Little Thieves by Margaret Owen. Not only do I love saying the title, Little Thieves. It is a retelling of the fairy tale The Goose Girl and it takes place in kind of an alternate reality, magical fantasy Germany and it is really fun. The characters are fun and interesting. I love it like morally gray character who is the lead and Vanya is such a fun and interesting character to follow along through the series. So I think you'll really like Little Thieves, check it out. You can click the link in our show notes to go to bookshop.org and pick it up for yourself. And also check out all of the other books that we've recommended, including ones that Amanda and I have both recommended, and links to books by authors who have been on the show as well. Check it out. that is spiritspodcast.com/books. And as you are well aware, we are a founding member of Multitude, a podcast collective that has some really incredible shows on it. And if you enjoy Spirits, I think you're going to love Exolore. Have you ever thought about how life would be like on a planet that is different from our own? Or how writers create your favorite fictional worlds? Well, you can wonder no longer, because we have the facts for you. Every week astrophysicist and folklorist Dr. Moiya McTier explores fictional worlds by building them with a panel of expert guests, interviewing professional world builders, or reviewing the merits of the worlds that have already been built. We are big fans of Dr. Moiya Mctier here on the show, a frequent guest of our podcast. And I think that you will love Exolore. You will learn, you will laugh and you will gain an appreciation for how special our planet really is. You can subscribe today by searching Exolore in your podcast app, or going to exolorepod.com. And now I'm going to tell you a little bit about our sponsors this week starting with Brooklinen. Listen, winter hibernation is going to be behind us soon. 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JULIA: So for this cocktail, I went with one that's called the Devil Soul, because at this point, that's what Faustus has gotten himself into. And I wanted something that kind of really evoked that. So something that is like smoky, flavorful complex. This drink has [41:02], it's got mezcal, it's got a morrow it's also got some elderflower liquor. So I think you'll be surprised when you have a sip if you're one of the people who enjoys these cocktails with us. Not worth selling your soul for, but close. I would say pretty close.
AMANDA: Julia that's what I was gonna say, took the words right out of my mouth.
JULIA: I always do, I always do.
AMANDA: Also kind of color blood, which I appreciate.
JULIA: Listen, that's what I'm here for, the amaro at some great color. So at this point, Faustus shows back up on stage, he's telling Mephistopheles, how he went from Germany to France and Italy, and asks Mephistopheles, if the devil has transported them to Rome. Saying how he really wants to see the different monuments and whatnot. And Mephistopheles. he's like, yeah, my guy, we're actually in the Pope's privy chamber right now. Also, while we're here, want to play some tricks on the Pope?
AMANDA: Again, again, heresy.
JULIA: Again, heresy. At this point, Amanda, like the Church of England is a thing, and a lot of the British population are not Catholics. They're some other form of Christianity, the Church of England specifically. And so like making fun of the Pope does seem like a very like thing people would do at this point in an English play. So I think it's kind of fun for you like, Oh, my man, we're gonna go play some tricks on the Pope, sounds good.
AMANDA: It definitely is funny, and it's not, you know, the head of the Church of England, Archbishop of Canterbury like that, perhaps would not have flown, but it is still like making fun of another country's King is still raises some eyebrows. I would have to imagine, even if it's not your king, that's kind of how I view it.
JULIA: Yes, I agree with that, for sure. And this is —they do some tricks on the Pope like that's what the [42:40] is, they turned themselves in Cardinals. They set a prisoner that the Pope wanted to send a prison free, and then they make themselves invisible while the Pope sits down to dinner and they like curse loudly. They steal food from the Pope's plate. A bunch of the clergymen in the room think there's a ghost in the room, and they straight up just like beat up the clergymen, shoot fireworks at them, and then flee.
AMANDA: Yep, it's a whole—it's a whole lot of stuff.
JULIA: It's a whole thing, It's truly a whole thing. And I imagine that in a production where they have like a lot of special effects and stuff. That's a very fun scene to watch because they're probably like legit shooting fireworks.
AMANDA: Yeah. And they had like, yeah, like little handheld, you know, like a—
JULIA: Little flame things like pew pew.
AMANDA: Whatever they call it, like sparklers almost exactly. And you know, a lot of running a lot of exits, lot of entrances, in you know, the Globes an open-air theater where I saw it, so there is like, the environment and people around the stage are standing. And so it is just like, you know, you're on your feet for like two and a half, three hours, but it doesn't feel like that, because it really—it really yeah, takes you in. It's an amazing spectacle. But again, all along in the back of my mind. I'm like, this is gonna end really badly for Faustus. Like it's—it's Faustus as many wild breaks, but it's not going to be a happy ending for this guy.
JULIA: No, no, it's not. You're like again, I'm so sure he's gonna get his come up. You—I just know it, you know what I mean?
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: So at this point, we cut back to Robin that stablehand from before, who along with his friend, the innkeeper have stolen a cup from the tavern. And her are being chased by a winemaker who demands its return. And they're like, no, we don't have it, but the winemaker keeps pressing them. So, Robin, himself summons Mephistopheles, who scares them away. And Mephistopheles is like really annoyed by this. He's like, I don't want to be summoned for something like so insignificant and trivial. And so he threatens to turn Robin and the innkeeper into an ape and a dog, but the two of them just kind of like laugh it off. And Mephistopheles just disappears when in a huff, and he's like I'm gonna go join Faustus in Turkey, bye.
AMANDA: See you losers.
JULIA: But it also like again this is like this idea. I love the—the portrayal that you saw where he is again this like kind of beleaguered middle manager, who is like your like current boss who's Fautis. His employees are now using you as an employee and you're like, that's not the deal that we made, that's not how it works. This stablehand doesn't get to just summon me whenever he wants. I think these interludes are like very eye-opening, but also very funny, so shout-out Marlowe, really good job.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: We cut to the chorus arriving again, letting us know that Faustus is now back in Germany and has made a name for himself. Basically by going around and lecturing about all the things that he's discovered, because of the abilities that have been granted to him by Mephistopheles. And even the German Emperor Charles the V has heard of Faustus. And the course informs the audience that Fautis has been invited to the palace, and that is kind of the scene that we cut to next.
AMANDA: Yeah, the course also mentions that his friends were like, really worried about where he was, they didn't know if he died, didn't know if he was gonna be okay. And when he came back, they were like, oh, thank god. So Faustus is a bad friend as well.
JULIA: So yeah, like he's just being like a really bad friend. And it's also a good way to kind of give us the idea that a lot of time is passing in between these scenes you know? Like it's not just like that was yesterday and now Faustus has done all of these things like time is passing, we have a 24-year span that we have to get through. So Marlowe does not waste any time in making it seem like things are going on.
AMANDA: Yeah, and I think they either greyed Faustus's hair, switch his makeup to sort of age him over the course of these—these like kind of back half of the play.
JULIA: That smart is —I mean like you have to show time Faust somehow. It's like watching Les Mis and being like, how are you going to make that really hot young guy, John Val John at the beginning look like an old man who's dying at the end, you know what I mean?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So we cut to the– the court of Charles the V, the Emperor of Germany, and we meet these two members of the court who are chatting before the arrival of Faustus. And apparently fastest has promised to summon the spirit of Alexander the Great for the Emperor, which is a big deal, big deal. Faustus arrives and he's like, what's up Emperor, how can I serve you? And the Emperor again, expresses, like, I want to see Alexander the Great and his lover. And Faustus is like, okay, I can't produce they're like legit bodies, but I can summon spirits that look like them, is that good? And one of the Knights of the court is basically like, hmm that sounds fake. You can probably do that as much as the Goddess Diana could turn me into a deer right now. Now Faustus at this point, we know is—he's a braggart right? And so he summons the spirit of Alexander and his lover embracing, and then also conjures a pair of antlers onto the head of the Knight that was mocking him.
AMANDA: Because everyone loves a cuckold joke even 500 years ago,
JULIA: I didn't know that was a cuckold joke, but I appreciate the context. Thank you so, so much. So this Knight immediately apologetic like, that's my bad, my bad, please change me back. And the Emperor's like, okay, that was a very cool trick, but also yes, you have to change him back. And so Faustus does, but warns the Knight, hey you better be more respectful to powerful scholars like me in the future.
AMANDA: Oh my God.
JULIA: I know what an absolute nerd, dork.
AMANDA: I know life was different back then, but like, imagine scholars now being like, I'm a scholar. I get paid $30,000 a year and have to work 100-hour weeks.
JULIA: You need to respect me. I mean, I do respect scholars but—
AMANDA: We should, we should. Yeah, how the mighty have fallen, seriously.
JULIA: Seriously. So the Knight goes off and finds the two gentleman from the court that we were introduced to earlier, and tells them he's going to get his revenge on Faustus. And these two guys are like, no man, that's a bad idea. You just saw what he did to you before. But this Knight, you know, he was embarrassed in front of the whole court. So he like kind of fears for his reputation and he needs to get his revenge, you know?
AMANDA: You have to, that's how you protect your manly hood.
JULIA: Exactly. Toxic masculinity at work here on Faustus.
AMANDA: Also, that's not a word, but manly hood is like a slightly diminutive form of saying manhood, so I'm into it.
JULIA: Manly hood.
AMANDA: Yeah, you don't have to protect it. We know, it's okay.
JULIA: So this Knight, he basically plans to ambush Faustus when he leaves the court, and also rob him of all these treasures that the Emperor is supposedly going to get Faustus. So like one gets revenge, two gets a bunch of like prizes. It's really a win-win for this Knight. if it pans out well.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: They just do that really, so they kind of just ambush Faust, they stab him. They cut off his head and they're just super happy about it. They're really celebrating, they're having a great time. They're like, yeah, we did it, that guy was nothing. And then Faustus rises from the ground with his head restored.
AMANDA: That demonic shit is coming in handy.
JULIA: It truly is. I don't think they realized what they were getting themselves into when they decided to go after Faustus, but here we are. So Faust is very smugly, tells them that they are fools. He's like my life belongs to the devil, it cannot be taken by anyone else. And then summons Mephistopheles, orders him to take the three men to help. But then he's like, no, actually, what I want you to do is to drag them through the thorns of the forest, and then hurl them off a cliff so that everyone can see what happens to people who mess with me. Like a really good revenge. Like if those guys just disappeared, no one would know. Like, oh, they messed with Faustus and now they're gone. Instead, everyone's gonna know what happened to them and it was because they messed with Faust. So we see them dragged off by demons on stage, and then later they appear to the audience kind of all beat up. And now all three of them have those antlers of deer sprouting out of their heads. Again, now we've tripled the cuckold joke.
AMANDA: Yeah, there's a line to Julia, just for those who may not have known, even you know contemporaneously about the cuckold joke, where the Emperor says to the Knight why I thought thou had spent a bachelor, but now I see thou hats a wife. That not only gives the horns but makes the wear them
JULIA: Oh, shit.
AMANDA: It's really when someone new comes in and your boss is like, yeah, fuck this guy, like served you flawlessly his whole life? You know, I sympathize with the Knight here, I'm not gonna lie to you.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. I mean, this guy's like not trying to really cause problems. And as far as we've seen, like, it makes sense for him to kind of call out Faust as being like, I don't think you can actually— like realistically, you would think that he can't do the things that he's claiming to do. I don't blame that Knight.
AMANDA: Yeah. Especially if he was like, I can't get Alexander, but I can get like an almost Alexander like, that's how this interaction started.
JULIA: Yeah, he was like, I can't bring you back the dead body of Alexander the Great, but having a spirit that looks like him. Yeah, so these three Knights, they all agree they're like we're gonna hide away in the castle. We would rather like not show our face at all and not have the world know that the shame that has befall on us because we messed with Faustus. And I think that's exactly what Faustus was trying to go for, when he made this decision to go after these guys.
AMANDA: I gotta say, I don't blame them, I would do the same thing.
JULIA: Of course, like—
AMANDA: I'm gonna retire to my bedchambers, forevermore.
JULIA: Of course, I mean, that would be my choice of most days, even after not being beat up by demons and getting a deer antlers.
AMANDA: Its true. Every time I wake up, and my husband, Eric, you know, will like get up and come back to bed and be like, oh, my little burrito, are you ready to face the world? And I'll go, no, because I'm not wrapped up in a full duvet, plus another blanket, like a little burrito.
JULIA: You're correct, Amanda, and I always want to be a burrito. I want to be the world's biggest burrito.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Truly. So Faustus meanwhile, we see he is selling his horse to this guy, but warns the guy like, hey, don't ride the horse into water. And the guy's like, sure, whatever, you're giving me a fair price for this horse, I'll buy it. And so that guy leaves, Fautis starts monologuing again, his favorite activity to do. Reflecting on how all this time has passed, and how the 24 year deal that he made with Lucifer is going to come to an end soon. Again, kind of letting the audience know how much time has passed since the beginning of the play.
AMANDA: Yeah, he says timed off run with calm and silent foot. Shortening my days and thread of vital life. Which I think is pretty beautiful, because you know, time marches on regardless of what we want it to do, with calm and silent foot.
JULIA: Exactly. and also when you're traveling across all Europe and riding a chariot pulled by dragons through the star, makes a lot of sense. So Faustus at this point falls asleep, but the audience sees the man who bought his horse returns kind of soaking wet. And says that while he was riding the horse, he rode it into a stream and the horse turned into a heap of straw. Classic.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Classic magician bullshit from Faustus here. So this man tries to wake Faustus up first by yelling in his ear, and then pulling on his leg. And when he does so, he just fully pulls Faustus's leg off. And the man wakes up screaming, and the man who bought the horse is terrified, runs off with Fautis's leg. But then Faustus starts laughing and his leg is restored. Another hilarious prank by our dude Faustus here, just loves a good prank. I feel like old men should not like pranking as much as they do in these kinds of shows and stories. My guy you're supposed to be like the most serious person in the world, but I guess that's not fun. You know what I mean? like I feel like a lot of the reason that Faustus decided to sell his soul to the devil was like, I'm gonna have more fun with life.
AMANDA: Exactly. There's also some really colorful language in this passage. And in the play Faustus and the Emperor and Mephistopheles and other sort of people of status, speak in blank verse, meaning it looks like a poem, but it doesn't rhyme. And all of the fucking Pleadians just talk in paragraphs like regular people. And so the horse coarser, that's how he's identified, the guy who is a horse dealer and–and buys it. Says, yonder is his snipper snapper, you hate past where's your master. Referring to Mephistopheles, which is a always hilarious to refer to Mephistopheles as like, Faustus's little bitch, even though he's, you know, the actual demon. And I thought, is this the origin of the word whippersnapper? Because according to the end notes, a snipper snapper is an uppity servant, and a [54:58] is a con artist or juggler, which is just incredibly delightful. So just my little textual note for us here.
JULIA: That is amazing. Amanda, thank you for sharing that, that's awesome.
AMANDA: I'm not going to refer to our editors as snipper snappers, but if you have to be rude to somebody at work in a way that gives you plausible deniability, consider it.
JULIA: There you go. I honestly I'll be called the snipper snapper, I'm reclaiming it for myself. So at this point, Wagner arrives, we haven't seen him in a little bit. And he tells Faustus, hey, the Duke of Van Holt has summoned you. And Faustus just goes off with him. Meanwhile, we cut again to our boy Robin, the stable hand and the innkeeper friend, again. They're drinking at a tavern and they overhear a wagon driver and the horse purchaser, the horse courser, who have just come in and they start talking about Faustus. And basically complaining about how he was treating them. So Robin declares that he still wants to seek out his former employer. But first, he has to have a couple of drinks, which big mood Robin I get it, I get it. You're at a bar, you're having a good time, you have stuff that you have to do, but like hey, a couple more rounds won't hurt, right ?
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: We next see Faustus in the court of the Duke where he's conjuring up beautiful little illusions for the man you know, just like ooh, Mr. Duke, we want to see a little spirit dance.
AMANDA: Yeah, a little floaty light, a little a—a little sheet made of wisps?
JULIA: Yeah. So he comments when he finishes that he notices that the Duchess is not enjoying the show and asks what she would like. And she says I would like a dish of fresh grapes, please. Grapes, please. And Faustus is like Mephistopheles, snap, snap, go get the lady some grapes.
AMANDA: Yeah. Which I mean when you think about it, is a pretty convincing trick because they say it's the middle of January, like how are they going to find grapes?
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. And as someone who is like I really crave watermelon in the middle of winter, I understand completely, it's very hard to get seasonal produce, and there's no refrigeration back then. So like you're screwed really. She is given the grapes by Mephistopheles again. Like while impressive, also kind of demeaning in my brain to Mephistopheles like this demon can do everything, why is he getting grapes for a lady who's like I want grapes, please?
AMANDA: Yeah, and Faustus even says specifically that he simply just got the grapes from India where it's warmer and they are growing right now.
JULIA: Wonderful.
AMANDA: And then Spirit brought them closer. So the spirit couldn't finish the delivery Mephistopheles had to be like, Madame, your grapes.
JULIA: Madame here, your grapes, please. So in some versions at this point, Robin, the wagon driver, and the horse courser from earlier, all like burst in and try to confront Faustus about his magic or like how they were treated by him. And then Faustus is just charms them into silence and sends them away. And this kind of just delights the Duke and Duchess and they're so impressed and pleased by his magic, and they promised to reward him. Which was just like this is his life now, he just travels abroad, impresses rich people, and like gets rewards as a result.
AMANDA: Yeah, there's an a text and a B text. As you imagine lots of debate in scholarly circles about what they mean. The differences aren't why.
JULIA: So the next cut over to Wagner, who tells the audience that he thinks that Faustus most likely getting close to dying because apparently off stage, Faustus gave Wagner all of his wealth.
AMANDA: Uncharacteristically thoughtful.
JULIA: Absolutely. For Faustus, uncharacteristically thoughtful. But Wagner also like isn't sure because, he's like, Faustus is acting like a dying man. He's out like cavorting with his fellow scholars. He's out partying at night, like, that's not what a dying man acts like, you know what I mean?
AMANDA: Listen, it's a good insight, there's simply no logic to be had.
JULIA: Exactly. So speaking of which, Faustus then enters with those scholars, and one of them asks Faustus to summon the spirit of Helen of Troy. And then she just like immediately crosses the stage in most productions, which delights the scholars they like there's the beautiful woman from history/mythology.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: So they all leave very happily, they're talking Faustus up. And then an old man enters and tries to convince Faustus that there's still time for him to repent and receive God's mercy. Not a thing you want to hear right before you're supposed to have your soul taken by the devil, right?
AMANDA: Or Julia, is it the perfect time to be like, you know what, I got all the earthly pleasures of this deal, and now I can repent.
JULIA: It really does distress Faustus in this moment. And then Mephistopheles is like, hey, man, here's a dagger, this old man's bothering you? Go ahead and kill him. And so the old man just starts begging for his life. He appeals to God for mercy and then Faustus let him leave, which really pisses Mephistopheles off. And he's like, hey, you better reconfirm your vow to Lucifer, or else I am going to literally rip you to shreds.
AMANDA: And this is where in the performance Arthur Darvill really kind of like turned it up and for the first time you see a sort of edge Mephistopheles. There are those moments where you're like, oh, this is why they got this actor for this part, and that for me really sealed the deal.
JULIA: Yeah, I can like almost imagine you described him earlier as kind of being like slunched and like really relaxed.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And imagine like him straightening up to his full height, kind of like Christopher Reeves playing Superman versus Clark Kent in those movies like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: That's how I'm picturing in my brain.
AMANDA: Totally that kind of vibe.
JULIA: Oh Awesome. So Faustus threatened now by Mephistopheles, again reconfirms his vow to Lucifer. Stabs his arm, Inscribes his vow in blood, and then he asks Mephistopheles to punish that old man that was trying to talk him out of his vow. and Mephistopheles says he can't because the man's soul basically is too pure, and touching him would destroy Mephistopheles. And Faustus is like, okay, can I see Helen again? Mephistopheles summons her, and Faustus makes a great speech about how beautiful she is and then kisses the spirit of Helen. I'm just like, guy—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: You're about to die, this is how you want to spend your last moment, just like kissing a beautiful reconstruction basically, of a woman that may or may not have existed.
AMANDA: Again, it's— it's you know, she's an object. She's an object to be acquired and a, you know, a feat to be conquered and not any amount of real connection.
AMANDA: Yeah, absolutely. We cut from that horny moment to the final night of Faustus' life. He has gathered all of his scholarly friends and tells them about the deal that he made with Lucifer, which kind of just horrifies the fellow Scholars. They're like, what can we do, like, how can we stop this. And Faustus tells them there's nothing that can be done. He—he made this deal, and now he has to kind of lay with it. And they all kind of sadly leave and tell him that they'll pray for him. Again, really just harping on like you could have made the better choice here, my guy, but you didn't. And once they leave, the clock strikes 11 and the portal to Hell opens before Faustus which horrifies him. And knowing that he only has an hour left, Faustus tries to plead with the clock to slow down and stop time, hoping that he'd like might have a chance now to repent. He then begs God to reduce his time in hell, so long as he can eventually be saved. He wishes he could be turned into an animal so that he could simply die, rather than face the afterlife. And in kind of, like a classic Greek tragedy sort of way, he curses his parents and then himself. And then the clock strikes midnight, the devil appears and Faustus is carried away screaming. Amanda, do you want to read the line that Faustus screams as he's— as he's pulled to hell?
AMANDA: [1:02:13], serpents, let me breathe wild. Ugly, how gape not come that Lucifer I'll burn my books, aaaahhh Mephistopheles!
JULIA: And then the play ends with the chorus returning and warning the audience. Faustus gone, regard his hellish fall, whose fiendish fortune may exhort the wise. Only to wonder it unlawful things. Whose deepness [1:02:28] entice such forward wits to practice more than heavenly power permits.
AMANDA: Exactly right.
JULIA: And that is the end of our play.
AMANDA: It is. And one of the things that we talked about in class and that I think is really easily observed in the staged version, is that this ending monologue by Faustus is a real kind of almost like a an inversion or a parody of the opening one. Remember where he was like, oh, law to boring, our religion, ahh gotta die at the end, and like tossing books around the stage. It's the same thing here, where he kind of like goes through various ideas of like, do I turn to something else, like curse my parents, curse myself? Like he's— he's really going through all of the things he curses. Like Pythagoras, you know, all have these classical allusions in the exact same way. And he also sort of mirrors that lovely line that I quoted earlier in the episode from Mephistopheles, he says, no, Faustus is finally cursed thyself, curse Lucifer that has to deprive to thee of the joys of heaven. Now, Lucifer didn't do that, Faustus did it to himself.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: But depriving him right of the face of God is the language that Mephistopheles used early on.
JULIA: Yeah, that—God, I love the parallels there. Marlowe is a great writer and it feels as we talked about before, it feels kind of shitty that we use him only as a foil to be like, well, he wasn't Shakespeare, but I think he should like really be studied on his own in the same light that we kind of studied Shakespeare. Because I think that this play is absolutely beautiful and funny and really hits home for a lot of our mythology-loving friends here on the podcast.
AMANDA: Yeah, and he was also a messy bitch Julia, which we love.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: The last lines of the play you read is so lovely, but then there is a final end note. And normally it just says end, right or [1:04:22] which means everybody on stage exits. No, no, Marlowe finishes this with a line of Latin which translates to the hour ends the day, [1:04:31] struck midnight, the author ends his work. Marlowe, we get it, Marlowe, we get it.
JULIA: That's beautiful. God damn you, you—you sassy little bitch.
AMANDA: I know. I've got to think though that Marlowe must have been a great hang. You never get a word in edgewise, but I got to imagine. This is someone I would invite to like a fantasy like pub crawl because the odds of me like seeing a spectacular pub brawl would be pretty high. But also I just gotta believe you know, the guy will give you a night to remember in terms of hangs and laughs, and maybe getting thrown out of, you know, Elizabethian England's hottest pubs.
JULIA: And I love that for him. And I mean, there's it—like I said, this is a play that has everything. It deals with sin and damnation, but also like redemption, which is huge and kind of like– like Medieval versus Renaissance values. And the Medieval idea of God being the center of the universe, to the transition for the Renaissance, where it was like, man, and science explains how the world works, right?
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: And you have power as a corrupting influence and the— the way that a man's household reflects who he is as a person. And like, of course, like Marlowe didn't invent the idea of the deal with the devil, even though nowadays, the story of Faustus is so quintessential to talking about the trope of the deal with the devil. Actually, there's a great story that is a predecessor to the story of Faustus, which is about a priest named Theophilus. And he basically was like a really unhappy monk who was living under a bishop, who he didn't really like. And so he tries to sell his soul to the devil, but he's eventually redeemed by the Virgin Mary so. And like of course, like throughout all of folklore, specifically in European and then North American folklore, there's a lot of examples of like, quote-unquote, "historic people" who made deals with the devil. So like a Pope Sylvester, the II was said to either have made a pact with a female devil that he was romantically involved with. Or he won the Papacy by playing dice with the devil, which is hilarious.
AMANDA: Incredible. All the way through modern pop culture, where songs like the Devil Went Down to Georgia are an incredible classic here in the US for a reason. It takes this trope and sets it to music, in a way that is just really fundamentally fascinating.
JULIA: Yeah, and there's plenty of musicians throughout history who have been accused of selling their soul to the devil for their musical prowess, which I think is fun and exciting in a lot of ways. And you know, like, even though there are many other versions of the deal with the devil, the story of Faustus that kind of quintessential example. It's literally referred to often enough as the Faustian deal or the Mephistophelean bargain you know. So the next time you think about the deal with the devil, remember that you learned about it here, talking about Faustus.
AMANDA: And next time you need a code word for a middle manager that's out to get you at work, just remember you can call that person a snip snapper.
JULIA: And remember to stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
[theme]
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a form to send us in your urban legends and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more. Like recipe cards with alcoholic and nonalcoholic for every single episode, directors' commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye!
Transcriptionist: KA
Editor: KM