Episode 273: Aphrodite
/We’re finally chatting about the goddess of Sex, Love, and Not Exactly Rock and Roll: Aphrodite! We talk about why our parents warned us about sea foam, and Amanda gives us a tour of the Poetry Corner!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of sex, incest, castration, genitals, adultery, misogyny, ableism, mental illness, childbirth, death, murder, and war.
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Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this episode 273: Aphrodite for our It's All Greek to Me series.
JULIA: Yeah, that's right. This week we are talking about the idol, the gorgeous goddess of love, sex, and not rock and roll but she sure has a lot of rock and roll moments, Aphrodite. Amanda, initial thoughts and impressions of Aphrodite before we dive in and learn more about her.
AMANDA: I mean, goddess of love, right?
JULIA: Mhmm.
AMANDA: As I was falling asleep last night, I was thinking through my day ahead and I was like, "Oh, yeah, get to, get to record Julia tomorrow. Always super fun. Love that. And talk about Aphrodite, ooh, yeah. Don't, don't tell her she's not the prettiest. I don't remember exactly if that's one of the stories, I think it is, where someone is like, doesn't choose Aphrodite for being the prettiest and I, as I'm falling asleep, I'm like, that's the one thing I know about Aphrodite. Don't tell her she's not the prettiest.
JULIA: That's true. You have to tell her she's the prettiest though.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: As we'll talk about later, even calling her the prettiest is not a guarantee that bad things won't happen.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah, so Aphrodite beautiful, love and sex goddess from Greek mythology. And actually, Amanda, before we get into this one, I've pulled quite a few either poems or quotes from various stories regarding Aphrodite. Do you think that maybe we could do some poetry corner in this episode?
AMANDA: Yes, please. My favorite.
JULIA: For non-Patreon people, poetry corner is a bonus episode kind of style that we did occasionally on the Patreon and we probably will do in the future, but it is Amanda reading me poetry and then I am like, Oh, let me tell you what I think about that. But instead, Amanda, I'm going to read you the poetry, and you, as an English major, are going to tell me what you think of it.
AMANDA: Oh, incredible to have to dust off that degree baby.
JULIA: That's what I want for you. I want you to be able to use it all the time.
AMANDA: Thank you.
JULIA: To get us started, we're gonna start with a little primer from our girl Edith Hamilton to kind of get a picture of what we're dealing with here. Edith Hamilton describes Aphrodite as, "The goddess of love and beauty, who beguiled all gods and men alike. The laughter loving goddess who laughed sweetly or mockingly at those her wiles had conquered. The irresistible goddess who stole away even the wits of the wise."
AMANDA: Oh, that's very good, and also really sets up Aphrodite as, like, a girlboss in the way we define it in 2022, which is, like, probably problematic, right? And like, is probably, I don't know, is like, the spiritual successor of the girls who made fun of your outfit in the cafeteria. And I think when you say that somebody, like, loves laughter it's like, okay, at or with, you know? If I'm on the side of it, it feels great. And if it's directed, not at me, I'm probably like, "Phew, it's not at me." So, I am very curious how the poetry is going to characterize her.
JULIA: Ooh, perfect. So, let's actually dive right into our first poem, right. So, this is one of the Homeric Hymns, which calls her, "A beautiful golden goddess." And then we'll get into the full quote, which is about, basically her birth, which is a story we'll tell afterwards. The breath of the west wind bore her over the sounding sea, up from the delicate foam to the wave ringed cypress, her aisle, and the hour's golden wreath welcomed her joyously. They clad her in raiment immortal, and brought her to the gods. Wonder seized them as they saw; violet crowned setaria."
AMANDA: Wow. I mean, let's start with a sort of look at the motifs here. And one of the best ways to start analyzing literature if that's not something you've done before, is to look at colors because colors are laden with meaning. And we've talked on the show before about how purple is often a color associated with royalty and different cultures will have different contexts but at least in the literature I analyzed, that's one of the ones that I learned, and gold, you know, it's beautiful. It's about the morning, it's about being touched by a god, it's about royalty as well. And so, those are the two things that really jumped out at me.
JULIA: Yeah, absolutely. And we will learn a little bit more about her colors later, but gold is absolutely one of her colors. Like, almost always she is the beautiful golden goddess. She is golden wreathed or golden footed or something to that effect.
AMANDA: And to I mean, she is really being characterized as, like, a gift that all of nature has come together to deliver, right? Like, we're talking about breath, about waves, about you know, wind and the sea, like, the foam. Everything is kind of, like, coming together to like lift her and bring her up and place her where she needs to be. So, it really feels like the um, yeah, like the, this is a god given gift. This is like a nature produced gift. This is not somebody sort of trying to make a place for themselves as like, "Yes, you are being treated as you deserve."
JULIA: Yes. I think that's absolutely true. And what I really love about this description and kind of the idea that I think the Greeks are coming across is this idea that, like, Aphrodite is so beautiful and that beauty is her power. Like, with Edith Hamilton she was saying, like, her beauty is so irresistible that it can steal away the wits of the wise. I think that's an incredibly, like, powerful imagery when it comes to Aphrodite. And in writings or stories about her it said that the winds would flee before her and the storm clouds would disperse when she arrived.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: I just, It's beautiful. Like, where she walked, sweet flowers would flourish. Radiant light spreads from her and the waves of the sea laugh as she stands on the shore. Like, so beautiful that even the beauty of nature falls before her.
AMANDA: Yeah and it just like stuff going your way, like being aligned with the world. That's how I feel occasionally when, like, I make two Subway transfers in a row or when, like, I get to the bus stop just as the bus is coming up and I'm like oh yeah, thanks society or like, you know, three green lights just as I, as I pull up to them where it feels like the world is on easy mode or like, you know, the, the sort of, you know, metaphorical, like, ramp has been lowered to, to let you down.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, I feel like that is the kind of world that Aphrodite lives in where everything that was before her and she's very much used to it. The poets would even say that without her there is no joy or loveliness in the world.
AMANDA: Wow. I mean, big uh, big shoulders, I guess.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: To stand on.
JULIA: Big ups to Aphrodite. And I mean, I don't blame them for speaking so highly of her because, yes, all this joy and loveliness that she brings is, is wonderful. But at the same time, as we've learned from all of these episodes of talking about the Greek gods, this is not the only side of her, obviously.
AMANDA: Yeah, like what happens when this goes wrong, right? Like, if, if you're the kind of person who's used to, like, you extend your hand when you get to the office and someone puts a perfect iced coffee into it. What happens when it's not there? I'm really having a sort of girlboss metaphor maybe because I finished inventing at Adobe yesterday. It's all, it's all here. This is the, the soup that I'm bringing to this episode.
JULIA: I love it. Bring that soup Amanda
AMANDA: And by soup I mean context. Yes.
JULIA: It's the bean soup. It's. Apollo's here. Oh, no.
AMANDA: It's the broth that suspends the stuff of life. I don't know.
JULIA: I was like is that a quote from something or you just made that up
AMANDA: No. No, it's not.
JULIA: Incredible. I love that for you.
AMANDA: Thank you.
JULIA: Yes, so she could be treacherous. She could be malicious. She could be even deadly and destructive against those who wronged her. It was also said that the myrtle tree was sacred to her and the dove was the animal that was most closely associated with her.
AMANDA: Okay, I mean, the most beautiful birds in theory?
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, very, very beautiful. Certainly, especially, like, the pure white dove is beautiful. I love a mourning dove too, personally, like, they're so beautiful, but also sad.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: I kind of told you the story of Aphrodite being born in the poem that we read earlier. And I think we can kind of start this episode now that we have a little primer with, where did she come from? Yes, we can tell the story of her birth, which we will but first let's examine her pre-Greek roots because the Greeks weren't the first ones to have a love goddess, and it's more than likely they were borrowing from some earlier traditions. It's pretty safe to assume from scholarly research that she was inspired by the worship of Astarte in Phoenicia, and then reaching even further back the Mesopotamian, Ishtar and Sumerian Inanna, who we've talked about on the show before.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: All three of these goddesses were associated with sexuality, fertility, and procreation. However, all of these goddesses kind of fell into this role of Queen of Heaven, and Aphrodite decidedly does not have that title in Greek mythology, so while she was an Olympian, she never really enjoyed the status that these other three goddesses had among their worshipers in their own hierarchies. Probably because, like, that's the typical Greek thing where it's, like, we're going to take our gods and then the ones that we're transporting in from other places are going to be slightly lesser.
AMANDA: Yeah, I mean, it's not a great look to say, Oh, hey, great, great god, you have here. Where'd you buy it? We're gonna make that one important now. No, you want to come in and say, you know, to justify the conquering that yours is the best.
JULIA: Yeah. Including those three goddesses, there are some comparative mythology scholars who also think that Aphrodite might have had early ties to the goddess Eos, who was the Greek Dawn goddess. Both were known, especially in early indo-European worship to be both "erotically beautiful and aggressively sexual," which is what I want in my life.
AMANDA: I know, that would be great.
JULIA: That's quite a title, which I appreciate. They were also known for having relationships with mortal lovers who ended up dying tragically, which we'll get to later.
AMANDA: Okay. Yeah, I mean, you can't be, like, powerfully terrifyingly errotic or whatever it was, without the sacrifice of a mortal lover here or there.
JULIA: Exactly. And even their associated colors were similar. Like, we were talking about gold and purple being colors associated with Aphrodite, as well she had the colors red and white, were associated with both her and Eos. So, it is quite likely that the two of them might have at some point been the same goddess and then separated later or at least were entwined in some way.
AMANDA: That makes sense.
JULIA: Now that we kind of know where Aphrodite came from in an anthropological sense, let's talk about her origins in the actual myths themselves. I guess, like, you're listening to Greek Mythology Episodes, I don't really need to, like, provide. It's not like spoilers, I guess, but like context castrations coming up real soon. All right. So, as the story of Aphrodite's birth goes, according to Hesiod in the theogony when Cronos killed his father, Uranus, he also castrated him. And when Cronos severed his genitals, he threw them into the sea.
AMANDA: Ah, the foam from which Aphrodite was born. I know this painting, but that one's called The Birth of Venus.
JULIA: Yeah, well, Venus is just the Roman version of Aphrodite, so there you go.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: So, as you implied Amanda from that foam made of Uranus' genitals, when they hit the water, Aphrodite was born.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Hesiod says that this was kind of where Aphrodite's name comes from because it can be translated as foam arisen. Yeah, it's, it's not lovely imagery. Especially when you think about what the foam probably is. It's not great.
AMANDA: I feel like this knowledge has been haunting me for, like, six years and people ask what do you do? The first thing I want to blurt out is Do you know Aphrodite was born from jizz foam?
JULIA: From jizz from the ocean?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: The ocean jizz? That's where she's from.
AMANDA: Yeah. It does make sense when my mom told me not to play in the ocean foam when I was a kid.
JULIA: Because we all, like, have imprinted the story in our minds and we're like, "Ooh, no. It's probably gross," even though it's just, it's just water.
AMANDA: I mean, it's probably also pollution. And there's, like, rappers and stuff and maybe, like, crabs. Like, I get why you tell a kid not to go play at the shore, but she was just, like, ew the foam. And now looking back, I'm like, "Oh, oh, Tammy, you were right."
JULIA: Tammy knew what was up. Tammy was a beach girl, so she knows what's good.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Actually, I really like this direct quote from Hesiod in the theogony which said that the genitals were "carried over the sea a long time and white foam arose from the immortal flesh and with it, a girl grew." You're pouting at me. Don't pout at me.
AMANDA: I'm pouting into the camera. I know this is not a compelling audio, but meh.
JULIA: If it helps, there is another version of Aphrodite's birth, where there's, there's no castration and there's no foam at all. And she's just the daughter of Zeus and the ocean Dione, but the seafoam birth is perhaps the most well-known and well received for whatever reason.
AMANDA: It's certainly the most memorable, Julia. You really, you got to give it that.
JULIA: Yeah, it's impactful. I'll give it that. It is impactful and like, you know, beautiful in a way, I guess.
AMANDA: [14:48]
JULIA: Yeah, in other tales, Aphrodite actually took the name Dione as another one of her epithets, which we will get to in just a bit meaning Divine One.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Very pretty, very nice, there's nothing to do with foam, and we don't have to talk about it anymore.
AMANDA: Excellent.
JULIA: We might talk about it a little bit more, but we'll see.
AMANDA: No, it's okay. It's okay. I know it's an integral part. It's just like.
JULIA: I get it, I get it. Speaking of epithets, Aphrodite, unsurprisingly, was a favorite of the poets and therefore had a lot of really beautiful ones. Her most common one was Ourania, meaning heavenly, which again, I think also comes from the idea that she was inspired by these "queens of Heaven in Ishtar and Inanna, so, makes sense.
AMANDA: Totally. And linguistically, you know, the tie with Ouranus, I get that.
JULIA: Yeah, she was also known as the full title of Aphrodite Pandemos, meaning for all of the folk, which I think is a really interesting one. Listen, aromantic people exist, but I do at the same time, find the idea that the Greeks found love. And again, the Greeks had plenty of non-romantic types of love, but the idea that they found love to be a universal experience and therefore Aphrodite was the goddess of everyone I think is a really really cool image.
AMANDA: Yeah, I actually find those kinds of Greek disambiguation of kinds of love to be really inclusive because no matter what kind of love you feel most rich in, or you feel appeals to you the most, or that you value the most highly, whether that's among, you know, friends, you know, of yourself and your purpose sexual or romantic love, they kind of recognize that all that exists.
JULIA: Yeah, check out the erotes, I think, wrote in, in one of our Advice from Folklore episodes.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And we talked a lot about the different types of love and the different erotes which are the children of Aphrodite, so, highly recommend checking that out. So, in other naming conventions, she was also known as Philommeidḗs or smile-loving, which a couple of the other translations they choose to instead of smile-loving, they translate it as other things which are not smiles but rather genitalia.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Which I, you know, we don't have to, we don't have to acknowledge that. We can just move on. She loves to smile, good for her.
AMANDA: Also, you can love, you can love sex. We're not here to slut shame, right?
JULIA: Yeah, no, I know. It's just like when it's the Greeks, the Greek poets.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Mostly guys saying that I'm just like, "Must you Homer? Really?" So, she was also called Cyprian and Cythereia, because of her association with those places. Those were the mountain and the island that she was said to have, like, been born upon the shores of after the seafoam incident so, important. She was also called Aphrodite en kopois or Aphrodite of the Gardens in Athens. And als, was called Eleemon or the merciful in Cyprus. Again, Cyprus, her hometown, so they're very nice to her there. The Spartans called her Potnia or mistress. Morpho, meaning shapely, and my personal favorite, which is Ambologera, or she who postpones old age.
AMANDA: Oh, I mean, that's a very fun way to put that.
JULIA: That is a nice one. I like it quite a bit. And you know, because she is this goddess of, like, sex and beauty it makes sense. Not that older people or signs of aging are not beautiful, a lot of signs of aging, I do think are beautiful. I was talking to Jake about this the other night where I was like, "Yeah, you know, like, some people I look at them, like, when they were at their, like, "peak" or whatever. I'm just like.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: No, they're hotter 20 years later now.
AMANDA: Yeah, I think so too, and actually bought for both my grandmother and my mom a book by Grace Bonnie interviewing a bunch of women over 50 about, like, their lives and careers. And the portraiture is just stunning. If I'm lucky enough to live to a ripe old age, I can't wait to rock gray hair and not pay a bunch of money for collagen treatments. It's, it's tough. Like, as I get older, I realized how fucked up sort of beauty standards are and I'm excited that people are starting to deconstruct that right on time for us.
JULIA: Yeah. I love my gray hair. I'll say right now. I love my grays. I want them to all come in at the same time. The patches I don't like, but the gray hair I love.
AMANDA: You have a real storm situation. You're gonna look great.
JULIA: Oh, man. Yes. 100%. Finally, my other personal favorite for Aphrodite is the name Androphonos or the killer of men for her revengeful nature.
AMANDA: You know I love it, Julia.
JULIA: I had to leave it for last because it is one of the best ones.
AMANDA: Oh, hell yeah.
JULIA: So, in terms of romances, it's not super surprising that Aphrodite has quite a few, but there are two that probably feature most heavily in her stories. The first that we'll talk about is Hephaestus who is the god of fire, blacksmiths, and metalworking. We've talked about him a little bit before and we'll talk about him more when he gets his own episode, but he was the son of Zeus and Hera or sometimes just Hera herself as, like, an act of revenge against Zeus giving birth to Athena on his own, because Hera is like, "No, you're only allowed to have children with me."
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Zeus has never listened to in his entire life.
AMANDA: No. Zeus never listens to a woman and Hera has no shortage of complaints. I think it's so fun that that's the one that really got her.
JULIA: Yeah, that's the one where she's like, You know what, I can do this by myself as well.
AMANDA: This is my one thing. This is the one thing you'll let me do.
JULIA: I can have it all. Hephaestus is kind of notable among the Olympians because he is the only one who is disabled and, like, and the rest of the Olympians are, "perfect." Which disability does not make you not perfect. That's silly, and we're not going to pretend that's true. Anyway, one story tells about how Zeus was starting to grow concerned because of Aphrodite's beauty, that all the gods were going to start fighting over who she would get to marry, basically, you know? He was just like, "I can see this starting to happen. Aphrodite is so hot. We can't. Some-- something needs to happen here before this all, like, boils over." So, he gives Aphrodite his hand in marriage to Hephaestus in order to make it look as though he wasn't choosing favorites.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Simple, basic. Probably a great decision by Zeus for once. Shockingly. In another version of the story, however, Hephaestus had fallen quite hard for Aphrodite like all of them in Olympus but knowing that he would never win her favor compared to the other gods, Hephaestus used his wiles instead. So, what he did was he built his mother Hera, who's the goddess of marriage herself, a golden throne, right? And Hera being a little bit vain and, like, you know, the queen of the Olympians, she loves the gift, but when she sits upon it, the trap is sprung and she is trapped in the chair and Hephaestus is like, "I'm gonna leave you here until you agree to marry me to Aphrodite."
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: And she's like, "You know what, fine."
AMANDA: I respect the hustle. Fine.
JULIA: I respect the hustle, son. It's fine. So, Hephaestus is quite happy with the marriage. At first. He gives many beautiful wedding gifts to Aphrodite, many pieces of beautiful jewelry that he crafted himself because again, he's a blacksmith and an artisan and he's very talented in that way.
AMANDA: I'm gonna say right now, Julia, sexiest figure in Greek mythology.
JULIA: Yeah, sexy. I love a good craftsman, a man who can work with his hands, you know. Mhmm, mhmm.
AMANDA: Mhmm, mhmm.
JULIA: So, many beautiful pieces of jewelry, but most importantly to Aphrodite, the strophion, which was basically a girdle or a very early version of a bra that accentuated her breasts. And it was said to make her even more irresistible to men.
AMANDA: I don't know if this is the intention of the myth, but I really love it when a partner is, like, yeah, look how fucking sexy that person is. That's my person. And I think it's so wonderful when we grew up hearing so many slut shaming, body shaming tales of, you know, enforcing modesty for fucked up cultural reasons and not empowering reasons that you choose. I love the idea that, that he's like, "Yeah, of course you're beautiful and I want you to feel as beautiful as you wish and, and look as beautiful as you can" because like, fuck yeah, dude.
JULIA: The relationship between Hephaestus and Aphrodite which unfortunately, like, did not age well, but I always think --
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: -- of the John Mulvaney like, that's my wife bit.
AMANDA: A real early wife guy.
JULIA: Yeah, he's a real wife guy and I appreciate that for him, you know?
AMANDA: We love it.
JULIA: However, and I feel bad going into this now after we're like "yeah, Hephaestus, you deserve this wonderful marriage."
AMANDA: Julia, I only get to have unproblematic faves in Greek mythology, midway through an anecdote and you know what? I just, I appreciate those moments. I live in them, and then I go, "Oh, well, that makes sense." And you know what? That's just the journey. That's okay.
JULIA: You know what, he still might be your unproblematic fave at the end of this depending on how you react to this next story.
AMANDA: Okay, let's hear it.
JULIA: Aphrodite, despite being a married woman, well known for her extramarital affairs, most notably with the god Ares, the war god. In the Odyssey, there is a story that is told about Ares and Aphrodite’s affair that is happening during the Trojan War. So, the story goes that one day the sun god Helios came to Hephaestus and told him that he had seen Ares and Aphrodite having sex in Hephaestus' own bed and then told the blacksmith god that they were more than likely to do it again.
AMANDA: Oh boy.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. Helios also can see all this because he is the sun and therefore sees everything that happens during the daytime, which, classic. So, Hepahestus concocts a plan. Fashions a golden net. And so, the next time Ares and Aphrodite are getting busy in his bedroom, he springs the trap and they are trapped in this golden net.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: So, as revenge, Hephaestus then invites the rest of the Olympians to come and laugh at the two captured lovers, which, you know.
AMANDA: Not great.
JULIA: Not great, but also, like, hopefully that stops them from ever doing it again.
AMANDA: Yeah, not great, I get it. Not great, I get it.
JULIA: But also, it's Greek mythology and like, there are worse things he could have done.
AMANDA: There sure are.
JULIA: So, eventually, Poseidon and the, like, rest of the Greek gods, specifically the gods, so it's like Poseidon, Hermes, and Apollo, they all start to kind of feel bad for Ares, and so they pay Hephaestus to release them.
AMANDA: I mean, from Hephaestus' point of view, you know, he kind of made your point and get some money, so not that bad.
JULIA: Yeah, it was said that Aphrodite became so embarrassed that she left Olympus for a time and went to her island of Cyprus, where she was catered to by the charites, or the Grace's who were the daughters of Zeus and Eurynome, and were the embodiments of charm, beauty, and goodwill. So, you know, not, not a bad deal for her, like, yes, embarrassing, but then you get to take, like, a nice vacation with your gal pals.
AMANDA: Yeah, like it's all like your [23:27] and hang with your gal pals. Go to the spa.
JULIA: Exactly. Exactly. Ares and Aphrodite had several children together, including Eros who we've spoken about on the show before and the other Erotes, who we've also spoken about. They also, together had Phpbos, who is the embodiment of fear. Deimos, who is the embodiment of dread. And Harmonia, who is the goddess of harmony and concord.
AMANDA: I guess, fuck the two bad kids, then. That is, I must say, that is how it feels sometimes to be like, "Why am I the one that got these mental illnesses? Why? Couldn't we just sprinkle them around? Or just skip it all together?" Maybe that's how those kids felt.
JULIA: Yeah, probably. I mean, Phobos and Deimos are the, and we'll talk about them a little bit more when we get to Ares, but they ride in his chariot with him when he goes into battle. So, like, obviously, fear and dread are things that you experience on the battlefield.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: The outlier there is Harmonia who's just like, "Hey, everything's nice and beautiful. Can you guys stop?"
AMANDA: Everything's pretty fine for me.
JULIA: I feel like Harmonia is probably the youngest child.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Again, I'm an only child so I don't know but...
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: She has youngest-child energy.
AMANDA: Or oldest child Peacekeeper, that sometimes happens.
JULIA: That's also true.
AMANDA: Every family's different.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. So, of course, those weren't her only lovers as the goddess of love herself, but we'll talk a bit more about one in particular when we get back from our refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it. Julia, it's the refill. How're you doing today, bud?
JULIA: I'm doing all right. Amanda, I had some coffee from the espresso machine that I put newly in my apartment. Do you want some?
AMANDA: That would be wonderful, thank you.
JULIA: Okay, I have fancy little espresso glasses.
AMANDA: Absolutely wonderful. Do you think there is enough to share with our new patrons Lauren, Bethany, and Conal
?
JULIA: Oh my God, absolutely. Here, everyone! Little glasses all around.
AMANDA: I feel like sometimes you meet people and then they also prove themselves to be accomplished baristas and I feel like that would totally happen with our Supporting-producer level patrons. Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Froody Chick, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jaybaybay, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Little vomitspiders running around, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi.
JULIA: Yeah, I feel like they would be really good at Latte Art.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Mhmm. Definitely.
AMANDA: So cute. And I would make, like, a custom chosen animal on the latte foam of our legend level patrons where I ever get the chance to, like, serve them coffee. Audra, Bex, Clara, Drew, Iron Havoc, Lexus, Morgan, Mother of Vikings, Sarah, Taylor, & Bea Me Up Scotty.
JULIA: I feel like maybe we could do, like, little medusa heads maybe. Would that be cute?
AMANDA: I love that.
JULIA: It's a lot of, like, intricate little snake heads, but I'm into it.
AMANDA: It would take a lot of effort, but you know what, they're worth it. Or maybe we can get a template and, like, dust cinnamon on top or nutmeg or something, you know?
JULIA: Yes, easier certainly.
AMANDA: Definitely. And if you're interested in our drink preferences, and the custom recipe cards Julia has made for all 273 episodes of this podcast Hey, you should become a patron. patreon.com/spiritspodcast where you can get drink cards and all kinds of other amazing bonus stuff in addition to just knowing that you're supporting the podcast and helping make this our jobs.
JULIA: Yeah, it's great. And we appreciate every single one of you that signs up every day, week, month, year. You're the best.
AMANDA: And patrons get a bonus Your Urban Legends episode on Monday, so you know, it's a good one.
JULIA: Yeah, I love doing those bonus episodes. But Amanda, you know, I was wondering what else are you loving lately, reading, listening to, watching, what are you loving?
AMANDA: I recently tore through two, like, post war era gay detective sort of slowburn romances by Cat Sebastian. The first one is called Hither Page. And the series is called Page & Sommers with an O. I really love, like, a classic kind of golden age detective mystery. Like, think about, you know, Agatha Christie and writers like that. And this is contemporary, you know, written today, novel in the style of those kinds of books. And the mysteries are really good. It does that thing where, like, there's a false lead, but it doesn't, like, let you kind of slow burn on that for the whole book. They're like, "Oh, we thought it was this, but it's not this." And I love that because it really lets you kind of in on the process of solving what's happening and the central kind of romance between a shell shocked country doctor and a jaded spy, as Cat puts it, is just incredibly sweet. And the village is so, like, tenderly rendered, and there is, like, intergenerational friendship and it's just a fantastic, fantastic series. So that's Page & Sommers by Cat Sebastian.
JULIA: And adding it to my wish list for my Library app and good to go.
AMANDA: Yep, Hither Page is book number one.
JULIA: Incredible. Now, Amanda, what if our listeners were craving something a little bit more further out there then postwar romances and want to learn about, like, you know, other planets and stuff? What would you recommend?
AMANDA: Not just other times, but other worlds?
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Well, I mean, there's, there's one podcast for that and it's Exolore. You gotta listen to Dr. Moiya McTier who's an astrophysicist and folklorist talking about fictional worlds. How you build them with expert guests, talking to professional world builders, and of course, reviewing the merits of worlds that have already been built. Moiya is so thoughtful and smart and lovely as you know from our Advice from Folklore episodes, and she is a wonderful interviewer. I just did an interview that's going to be airing perhaps in the future on the show and being interviewed by Moiya is a lovely experience. I get now from the other side of the microphone or the headphones rather why the show is so great. So, subscribe today by searching for Exolore in your podcast app or going to exolorepod.com. Link is also in the description as always.
JULIA: Now, Amanda, we just talked about in the episode about the girdle that Hephaestus made for Aphrodite that just enhanced her boobs so much that they became even more magical. And now, I don't have Hephaestus to make my bras but I do have Third Love where their bras and their panties and their pajamas make me look sexy but also comfortable and that is truly a gift of the gods if you think about it.
AMANDA: Yeah. I feel kind of, like, a goddess rising from the sea when I get up in my extremely incredible silky, like, camisole set that they sent us recently. Their sleepwear is to die for. I feel like a goddess. Like, there's no other way to put it. It's so comfortable. It's so cute. I love it.
JULIA: Yeah and Third Love does comfort so that you can do you. There are underwear, there are activewear and all of their feel good in it all day wear is designed to hug better, to hold stronger, and support for longer. And you can just take a real quick quiz from them. It makes it super easy to find the bra that actually fits you. And you are going to love your fit, guaranteed. Amanda talked about a set that they sent us, and oh my god, mine arrived on Valentine's Day and it was the greatest Valentine's Day gift that I received/could give.
AMANDA: To yourself and your boobs.
JULIA: And my boobs. Exactly. So, feeling is believing and you can give your boobs the 24/7 comfort and support that they deserve. Upgrade your bra today and get 20% off your first order today at thirdlove.com/spirits. That's 20% off at thirdlove.com/spirits.
AMANDA: Julia, I love nothing more when I come home from a long day at work or when I am just feeling like I need a little help. And I want to kind of give myself the gift of not having to cook dinner. The thing that I love the most is opening the DoorDash app and ordering a lovely meal from one of my family owned local restaurants. If you have back-to-back meetings or errands or chores, and you just need a hand clearing something from your to-do list or taking back a little time or just doing a little bit less, which is something I'm trying to work on. DoorDash can be a really great tool. You can get what you want to eat right now and right to your door with DoorDash.
JULIA: Honestly, last night, Amanda, we really wanted Thai food from this specific Thai place and they were closed. I was like, "I have no idea what other Thai places are in the area." I just opened up my DoorDash app, and I found a great rated Thai place that I hadn't tried before and there Mosman Curry was probably some of the best I've ever had, so thank you DoorDash.
AMANDA: Love it. And for a limited time, our listeners can get 25% off and zero delivery fees on their first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter code spirits. That's 25% off up to $10 in value and zero delivery fees on your first order when you download the DoorDash app in the App Store and enter code spirits. Don't forget that's code spirits for 25% off your first order with DoorDash. Subject to change, terms apply.
JULIA: Terms apply. Amanda, we're also sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. And this month, BetterHelp Online Therapy wants to remind you that you matter just as much as everyone else does. And therapy is a great way to make sure that you show up for yourself. Amanda, what's a way that you've been showing up for yourself lately?
AMANDA: I have been trying to hold myself to less strict standards at home. And listen, would I like to clean my kitchen sink before I go to sleep every night? I sure would, but making myself do something when all I really want to do is rest is not serving me and I am trying really hard to prioritize rest like I would for anybody else.
JULIA: Then I know that you have been talking to your counselor at BetterHelp about that, which I know is probably making things a lot easier.
AMANDA: Absolutely. Her name is also Amanda and we talk every week and that's how I get my therapy. I don't have to go to a waiting room. I don't have to, you know, talk to somebody face-to-face if I don't want to. We sometimes just do a voice chat or if I'm particularly busy or traveling, we can correspond via their secure app instead. It's really really convenient.
JULIA: Yes, and BetterHelp is online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist, so you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It is much more affordable than in-person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. Give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp Online Therapy. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Spirits listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/spirits. That's b e t t e r h e l p.com/spirits.
AMANDA: And now, let's get back to the show.
JULIA: So, for Aphrodite, I definitely pictured a cocktail that was kind of similar to a Cosmo, something that is, like, strong but also sweet and tart at the same time. But I was doing some Googling and I found a cocktail called Aphrodite's Ambrosia and it seemed perfect. The original recipe calls for Prosecco. I feel like champagne would be a better option that seems more up Aphrodite's alley.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: It also includes whiskey, they suggest maker's mark, which I think is pretty on brand. A little bit of apricot liqueur, and then quite a few dashes of bitters, which I think is again, perfect for Aphrodite. It's balancing like the sweet but also the bitter. And I really love this cocktail. I made it for Jake and I the other day. And I think if you added, like, a little bit of, like, muddled strawberry or raspberry, it would be perfect.
AMANDA: I just, Julia, I really want to give you a lot of credit for resisting the temptation to do a foamy drink and an egg white shaken drink because I would have revolted.
JULIA: You could have. You could. Additionally, see the problem is though you have a sparkling thing in there already.
AMANDA: Yeah. I feel like champagne is not your jam, you could always do, like, a whiskey sour type situation and just get that egg white all up in there if that's what you feel like.
JULIA: If you want foam,
AMANDA: If you want foam.
JULIA: You know what, Amanda? I wanted to save you from that but I'm glad that's where your mind went. I'm glad I drilled this into you so much that now that's all you could think of.
AMANDA: If you had done it I would yell and then be like, "fair enough." But you know, you did it. I feel like you really, you deserve, you deserve some praise for that.
JULIA: No, the champagne is the foam. Okay, moving on.
AMANDA: Whoo!
JULIA: Okay, so with these cocktails in hand, let me tell you about the tragedy of Adonis.
AMANDA: No!
JULIA: One of her other lovers, as told in the metamorphosis was Adonis, who actually had a connection to Aphrodite even before he was born because he was the son of Myrrha, who was a woman who Aphrodite had cursed with insatiable lust for her own father. Not great.
AMANDA: Oh, pissed. That's not a great curse.
JULIA: It was because Myrrha's mother had bragged that Myrrha was more beautiful than Aphrodite. Again, don't do that. I don't care if it's not yourself. Don't ever say anyone is more beautiful or more talented than any goddess.
AMANDA: It's just not smart. It's just not smart.
JULIA: So, Myrrha was transformed eventually into a Myrrh tree, that's where we get the name from.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And gave birth to Adonis in that form, you know, as a tree.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: I don't know how that worked, but it's an interesting image when you try to figure it out.
AMANDA: It is. Seems painful, but I'll leave that to the gods.
JULIA: Yeah. So, Aphrodite came to claim the baby after that in the woods where he was born from a tree and gave him to Persephone to be fostered in the underworld until he came of age.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Why she didn't do it herself? I'm not sure, because she has, like, had other children so it's not, like, she's unfamiliar with, you know, raising a child but gives the child to Persephone to raise. When Aphrodite returned to take him back from Persephone years later, she found that Adonis was just an incredibly handsome young man. Extremely hot.
AMANDA: That awkward feeling.
JULIA: Mhmm. Mhmm. So hot. Persephone refused to release him into Aphrodite's custody also, because she, like, raised him.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: But also he was extremely hot, so it's, like, a little weird.
AMANDA: Totally. You got some investment. And I don't know, sometimes your ward grows up hot. That's the thing that we have seen in Sweeney Todd and others.
JULIA: That's true. That's true. So, the two of them start fighting over this. And eventually, they call on Zeus who was forced to step in and decreed that Adonis would spend a third of the year with Aphrodite, a third of the year with Persephone, and then a third of the year with whomever he preferred.
AMANDA: Interesting.
JULIA: Actually, kind of similar to Persephone's whole deal, which I think is --
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: -- an interesting parallel, but Adonis chose to spend his given time with Aphrodite, which is a little bit of a slight on his, you know, adoptive mother or whatever, but...
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: It is what it is. However, this is a mortal man, Amanda. This a mortal man.
AMANDA: You can't be a lover of Aphrodite and not suffer.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. So, one day he was out hunting, as you do when you're a young, handsome Greek man, and he was wounded by a wild boar.
AMANDA: Not again with the wild boars. Fuck!
JULIA: Well, interestingly, in some tellings, the boar was sent by Ares who is jealous of Adonis for spending all of his time with Aphrodite.
AMANDA: I mean, sure.
JULIA: And the boar is the, like, animal of Ares so it makes sense.
AMANDA: Brutal, brutal.
JULIA: And of course, Adonis bleeds to death in Aphrodite's arms.
AMANDA: Terrible.
JULIA: Terrible, but also, Amanda, it's, it's time for poetry quarter.
AMANDA: What a poetic image!
JULIA: Because we're going to tell the poem of what Aphrodite says to the corpse of Adonis. You're ready?
AMANDA: Oh, baby, let's do it.
JULIA: So, she says to him, "You die. Oh, thrice desired and my desire has flown like a dream. Gone with you is the girdle of my beauty, but I myself must live who am a goddess and may not follow you. Kiss me yet once again, the last long kiss until I draw your soul within my lips and drink down all your love." And then the poem continues, "The mountains all we're calling and the oak trees answering Oh, woe, woe for Adonis. He is dead. And Echo cried in answer. Oh, woe, woe for Adonis. And all the Loves wept for him and all the Muses too.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: My personal favorite section of this is the "kiss me yet once again, the last long kiss until I draw your soul within my lips and drink down all your love."
AMANDA: It's very physical. Like, holding them in your arms. I know, I know, death was always more embodied and closer to home for, like, all of human society than it is for us now where that, you know, generally doesn't, doesn't happen within our homes. And we have to use our traditions to figure out how to, you know, have physical reminders of death and mourning, moving on, things like that. But this is I mean, it's very moving. And you know, we also kind of see, as echoed in the previous poem, nature comes together to kind of add its weight to your feeling like the world is sharing in your grief, in your feeling, and that's really moving.
JULIA: Yeah. I'm glad that you pointed out the physicality of the poem and kind of what is being described in the scene because I didn't put two and two together and Aphrodite is an extremely physical goddess. Like, a lot of her power comes from her beauty and her looks and like, you know, the physicality of sexuality.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And so, the fact that she is like, you know, pressing her lips against the dead lips of Adonis and is holding him there and is, like, talking about drawing his soul into her lips and drinking down his love, like, that is a very physical and honestly, like, it's a pretty erotic like, oh, man, you've died poem.
AMANDA: Yeah. I'm not gonna lie, my first thought was about Pyramus and Thisbe, the satirical play within a play in Midsummer Night's Dream where two lovers, Romeo and Juliet style, are dramatically longly dying and the fact that it was so parodied when Shakespeare was writing, which seems to us to be, like, the height of classicism, you know, in, in the 2000s, just makes me laugh, because like, this is obviously a thing that has existed for long enough that he parodied it then, and we're still parodying it now. But a thing that you parody gets parodied because something about it works and something about it sticks and it becomes prolific, and it becomes a really integral part of some part of, like, art or society. And so, I get it. Like, this is, you know, that's why the phrase Adonis is a phrase that we use and these associations, you know, I didn't know about, but it makes sense that that's sort of the pinnacle of, like, a beautiful form. And of course, you missed that when it's gone.
JULIA: Absolutely. And I also just like the idea of we talked about this in the Hermes episode, but the separation between, like, the immortality of the gods and mortals in the underworld. There's like, a very clear line that the gods cannot cross when it comes to entering the underworld and Aphrodite knows this.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Oh, Aphrodite. Now, I'm sad about Aphrodite, which I wasn't expecting to talk about this episode.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: But yeah, Aphrodite, being the goddess of love has, in times, gotten her in trouble in the past. So, for instance, there was a time told by Homer where Zeus became irritated that Aphrodite was encouraging these romances between the gods and the mortals.
AMANDA: Like, that's what I do. That's my thing.
JULIA: So, in revenge, he made her fall in love with this handsome mortal shepherd. The guy was a shepherd, but also a prince. There's a lot of, like, princely shepherds that happen in Greek mythology. Like, I get it, but I don't get it. You know what I mean?
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And this particular mortal Shepherd Prince was named Ankhises. And so, Aphrodite upon seeing him and falling in love, went to the shepherd in his home, appearing as this tall, beautiful but mortal woman. Anchises upon seeing her in her bright clothing and gleaming jewelry and her "breasts shining with divine radiance."
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Yeah, he, like, looks at her and he's like, "ma'am, you got to be Aphrodite. I'm honored you're even here. I'm gonna build you an altar on top of Mount Ida so that you can come and bless my family."
AMANDA: That's it handsome mortal shepherd. Okay.
JULIA: And Aphrodite is like, "No, no, I'm not Aphrodite. I'm just a princess. And I'm a virgin. And if you would, please take me to your parents so that we could be married. That would be great, you know?"
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Unfortunately, because it's Aphrodite, Anchises is overcome with his desire to have sex with her and leads her to his bed, rather than being like, "Oh, yes. Let's go get married right now." He's like, "Nah, man. You're too hot. We got to do it right now."
AMANDA: I mean, he tried to build her an altar,what more do you want?
JULIA: Yeah, and she straight up lies to him. She's like, "No, I'm not Aphrodite. It's so flattering that you would say that but no." So, the two of them have consensual sex. This is not, like, a non consensual thing. And after they are done, that is when Aphrodite reveals her true divine form. She's like, "All right, I got what I want, which is having sex with you. Awesome." And Anchises, upon seeing her full divine form.
AMANDA: Does he just perish?
JULIA: I mean, he doesn't fully perish but he is terrified.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: He's like, more scared than he ever has been in his entire life. But Aphrodite tells him, "Do not worry. I am going to bear you a son and he is going to be a hero and a nobleman just like his father," and that does in fact come to pass and she gives birth to the demigod Aeneas.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: One, I love that story where Zeus is like, "Haha, well, you've made me fallen in love with so many mortal women. And now I'm going to do the same to you." And she's like, "No, it's all good actually, like no one cares."
AMANDA: I'm gonna have some sexy roleplay. We're gonna have a son that both of us treasure. Moving on.
JULIA: It truly was just sexy roleplay for her. Oh my god.
AMANDA: That's fine. Yeah, keep it fresh. Enjoy it.
JULIA: It's like "Oh, no, my car broke down and you must take me to your parents so that we may wed."
AMANDA: Yeah, Hey, stranger in a bar, like great.
JULIA: Oh, no, the image is gonna be stuck in my head forever. Thank you for that
AMANDA: Yeah, have a sexy Shepherd roleplay. Enjoy yourselves.
JULIA: Just do it.
AMANDA: With your one mortal life.
JULIA: So, much like the other gods in Greek mythology, Aphrodite was a goddess that was great to have in your side, but not the type to be trifled with. She love Love, as you can imagine, and she loved when people appealed to her vanity in order to win her favor.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: For example, she aided the nobleman, Hippomenes, when he was trying to win the hand of the warrior woman Atalanta, who we talked about a little bit before. Atalanta basically said that she would refuse to marry any man who couldn't outrun her and a foot race and those who lost she would then behead.
AMANDA: That's girlbossing, baby.
JULIA: Truly, truly. So, Hippomenes desperately wanted to marry her and so he went to Aphrodite and Aphrodite gifted him these golden apples and instructed him to toss them in front of Atlanta as she ran, so he did what he was told and Atlanta seeing the beautiful fruit stopped to stoop down and pick up each one which allowed for Hippomenes to outrun her.
AMANDA: I love the idea of just, like, a strong strong lady being like, "oh, a nice fruit" and then stopping, like, that's so relatable to me.
JULIA: The highlight. As someone who I know loves apples, Amanda, I can see it.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Nothing like it.
JULIA: However, of course, there's always a however, Hippomenes forgot to thank Aphrodite and repay her for her kindness.
AMANDA: No!
JULIA: Which you can't do. You can't do that.
AMANDA: Gotta kiss the ring.
JULIA: As a result, Aphrodite filled the couple with lust while they were visiting the temple of Cybele, and Cybele for those who don't know, primal nature goddess. She saw this defilement of her temple happening and then turned the couple into lions as punishment, which also satisfied Aphrodite.
AMANDA: Yeah, I mean, my head is just in this space now, but like that's some, like, Do or Die romance trope right there.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: That's the thing.
JULIA: Obviously, this is not her only instance of revenge. For example, when the women of the island of Lemnos refused to make sacrifices to her, she made all of them stink so badly that their husbands refused to have sex with them.
AMANDA: Damn, Aphrodite. Really stooping low.
JULIA: Yeah. And then in their rage, these women killed all the men on the island, and were supposedly so sex starved when Jason and the Argonauts arrived there that Aphrodite was like, "Fine, you guys can have sex again." And so, Jason and his crew were allowed to help repopulate the island and the women of Lemnos became devoted to Aphrodite.
AMANDA: If only it was the island of Lesbos, Julia.
JULIA: If only. If only, We will talk a little bit about that later, though. Another silly man who didn't honor Aphrodite was the famous chariot racer Glaucus, who managed to piss off Aphrodite when he refused to let his horses mate because he believed that it would hinder their speed.
AMANDA: Oh, fascinating.
JULIA: And so, Aphrodite was like, "No, you gotta let these horses fuck" and he's like, "No, I must win all my races."
AMANDA: Oh, my god.
JULIA: And then during a race, Aphrodite drove his horses mad, and they tossed him to the ground and tore him apart.
AMANDA: Oh, my God. Amazing. Again, like, I appreciate, Julia, that you brought aromanticism and asexuality into this discussion early because it is simply not true and outdated and harmful to assume it is something that every human being innately needs, wants, or should do. And I also appreciate that Aphrodite is kind of like, "Yeah, if you like to have sex, you should. Like, if you'd like to have sex, yes, you know, it's fucked up not to let you do that."
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And you know, overcorrect in lots of bad directions, but it is something that I appreciate. One of the reasons I think that, that Greek mythology remains is because it goes so against kind of puritanical culture under which we grew up. There's something, like, very sort of modern about it, which is not totally right and doesn't get the whole picture, but is a useful ingredient to kind of add back into the soup.
JULIA: Amanda, we would be absolutely remiss if we didn't talk about Paris and the decision that led to the Trojan War.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: So, this all started with the marriage of Peleus and Thetis, who would eventually give birth to the hero Achilles. This was an event that, like, all of the gods and goddesses were invited to except for the goddess of discord, Eris. This of course, pissed off Eris, and she came to the party anyway, showing up with a golden apple that had the phrase "for the fairest" inscribed into it.
AMANDA: It's a trap. It's a trap. That was a trap.
JULIA: Well listen, being the goddess of discord, of course it is. And so, she just chucked it into a crowd of the goddesses like a grenade and then settled back to watch the chaos ensue.
AMANDA: This is fully what I'm going to picture next time I see a bouquet throwing happen at a wedding.
JULIA: Do you want me to just, like, get a nice golden apple for you and to carve "for the fairest" into it?
AMANDA: That'd be great. And then I'll eat it.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: And then I'll share it with Eric and then we'll have a great day.
JULIA: Yes! Of course, almost immediately, the apple is claimed by Aphrodite, Hera, and Athena. Each believed that the inscription meant that it was theirs.
AMANDA: That's girl bossing, baby.
JULIA: Exactly. And of course, when they could not settle it between them, they turned to Zeus, who was already like, it already looks like Zeus was starting to sweat because he did not want to get in the middle of these three. And so, he tasked the Trojan prince Paris with making the decision. And I want to note something here that doesn't typically get discussed in this part of the story. Paris isn't at the wedding.
AMANDA: Really?
JULIA: He is over on Mount Ida in Troy taking a bath in a hot spring when all of a sudden Athena, Hera, and Aphrodite appeared to him.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: Like, imagine you're just taking a nice fucking bath and the three hottest women you've ever seen just appear and asked you, "Hey, which of us is the hottest?"
AMANDA: Incredible. You're like, "Well, I'm probably about to die, but what a final act."
JULIA: Of course for Paris' mortal eyes, they are all equally beautiful. And Paris is like, "Ma'am, please, I can't decide. Please don't make me decide." And so, the goddesses have to kind of resort to bribes at this point.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Hera offers a power over all of Asia and Europe. Pretty great.
AMANDA: Pretty great.
JULIA: Athena offers up wisdom, fame, and glory in battle, which he probably should have taken given what happens next. And then, Aphrodite promises him that she would let him marry the most beautiful woman on earth.
AMANDA: Oh, Paris. If only you had chosen better.
JULIA: Yes, so Paris declares Aphrodite is the winner. The problem, Amanda, in case you don't know the Trojan War is that the most beautiful woman in the world is, is already married to King Menelaus of Sparta, and her name is Helen.
JULIA: Uh-huh. And there's just a whole, just a lot of dominoes happen after that.
JULIA: Yeah, so Aphrodite leads Paris to Menelaus' home to help him steal away Helen. The two other goddesses, Hera and Athena, sided with the Greeks as Menelaus has led them into battle to take his wife back while Aphrodite remained on the side of the Trojans.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And the Trojan War happened.
AMANDA: There we go.
JULIA: All right, to wrap us up, Amanda. Aphrodite, we got to talk about her festival.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: She had one main festival. It was known as Aphrodisia. It was celebrated mostly in Athens and Corinth, the festival was to celebrate Aphrodite's role in the unification of the city of Attica on the island of Cyprus, which as I mentioned was Aphrodite's, like, home spot, and this festival would happen, what is like modernly around late July to late August. The festival would begin with the purification of Aphrodite's temple through the sacrifice of a dove, her sacred bird.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And then an offering of salt due to Aphrodite's connection to the sea. Seafoam. Foam foam, foam.
AMANDA: Mhmm. Mhmm.
JULIA: And also bread which was typically shaped in a phallic shaped loaf.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: Also, male goats were given as offerings to the temple though not sacrificed because this was basically designed to not be a very bloody festival to appeal to Aphrodite's sensibilities. Additionally, acts of service for the temple were very popular, especially in Attica. So, worshipers would wash the statues, they would coat the temple roof in pitch, they would dye purple cloth for ritualistic clothing, that kind of thing.
AMANDA: Damn, really just showing your love by helping clean up the spot. I love that.
JULIA: Exactly. And then most notable about the festival is the fact that many of the worshippers were actually sex workers as Aphrodite was their patron goddess.
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: Right on, right? A couple of, like, last things about Aphrodite. Her worship was intrinsically tied with her iconography, so I mentioned the dove, which I think is worth pointing out, was also a symbol of both Inanna and Ishtar. Like, literally the Greek word for dove seems to have arrived from the Semitic phrase for bird of Ishtar.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Basically, I think it's extremely cool from a etymology point of view.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: And also, in order to honor Aphrodite at her temple in Daphne, worshippers would leave these offerings of these small white carved marble doves, which I think is also extremely beautiful.
AMANDA: Adorable.
JULIA: And she was also associated with a couple of other birds as well. Sparrows, for instance, which are mentioned as pulling her chariot in a poem by Sappho. You asked about Lesbos earlier, there's our girl Sappho.
AMANDA: My girl.
JULIA: Called The Ode to Aphrodite. And let me read this as our last poetry corner.
AMANDA: Yay!
JULIA: Rich throned Immortal Aphrodite, scheming daughter of Zeus, I pray you with pain and sickness Queen, crush not my heart become if ever in the past you heard my voice from afar and hearkened. And let your father's halls and came with gold chariot yoked and pretty sparrows brought you swiftly across the dark earth fluttering wings from heaven through the air.
AMANDA: Gay ass shit, I have ever heard. I love it.
JULIA: Extremely gay shit. Yes. Excellent.
AMANDA: With pain and sickness, Queen crush on my heart.
JULIA: Ma'am, you've heard me pining in the past. This time. I'm pining for real. Come help.
AMANDA: With pain and sickness, Queen crush on my heart.
JULIA: Let my loved love me back for once. Ma'am, please.
AMANDA: Please. Make her notice me.
JULIA: Make her notice me please.
AMANDA: Oh, I love it.
JULIA: I just really like the idea of Sparrows fluttering in the darkness. Like, that's a really, like, beautiful, but also scary imagery.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Yeah. And very becoming of Aphrodite.
AMANDA: Yeah. And it really, I think captures what it is to ask a deity for help. Like, it's not a light thing, right? And it's sort of acknowledging like, "I know I've asked in the past, if ever you're going to help me, like, now is the one." And you have to cross that distance. You have to go from your father's halls, you have to come in a gold chariot, you have to be carried by birds across the earth through the dark expanse from heaven and, like, that I think really makes serious the ask. It really shows the kind of, like, the depth of suffering, the size of the favor, and you're right Julia. Like saying like, I know in the past I've said it but this time I really mean it. It really just gives it weight and gravity.
JULIA: Yeah, it does. And I like this because it really does show someone, I know it's Sappho, but, like, someone who is worshiping, who is honoring, who's calling out for Aphrodite, and it's a really good example of, like, what I feel like her worship looks like.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: A few last iconography things and then we'll wrap it up, but swans, geese, and ducks; all sacred to Aphrodite. Again, because she was connected to the sea. As well as conch shells and roses. Her fruit was the apple, unsurprising after the story with Paris, but she was also, like Persephone, associated with pomegranates, which some scholars assume might be because the red seeds suggest sexuality. Like, have you ever broken up a pomegranate? That's a hot fruit.
AMANDA: It's a sexy fruit, Julia. It's a sexy fruit.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: The hot fruit. We're not talking enough about it, but pomegranate's a hot fruit, maybe the hottest.
JULIA: But also, Amanda, did you know that some Greek women used pomegranates as birth control? So, here's how that worked, by the way, because I have exclusive details on that.
AMANDA: Oh, great. Thank you.
JULIA: Women should grind the inside of a fresh pomegranate peel, add water, and then apply it to their vagina.
AMANDA: I mean, was there, like, acidity, like a sperm acidic? You know, there's probably a reason people did that, right?
JULIA: So, this comes from a guy named Soranus of Ephesus, who was a Greek physician who notably wrote a four volume treatise on gynecology.
AMANDA: So really just one of those, like, write some stuff down and hope one of it works situations?
JULIA: I mean, he also suggested stuff like liquid lead as.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JULIA: My personal favorite suggestion from him is a great form of birth control is sneezing.
AMANDA: Okay, well, I mean, alright, nevermind.
JULIA: I mean, I guess?
AMANDA: I'll continue to reclaim the pomegranate as a feminist fruit
JULIA: You know what, I did see something, and I think it was an outdated medical study, but someone did say that, like, oh well animals that they, like, applied pomegranates to or something to that effect did see a decrease in fertility or something like that.
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: I don't know how true or accurate or you know, up to date that is, but I did see something that's up, bud. So Amanda, that's it for Aphrodite. I didn't feature some of her more well-known stories, because either they're ones that we've covered already, like her role in the story of Eros and Psyche, but I think the ones that we did talk about painted a pretty distinct picture of Greek mythology's love goddess, and I'm so glad that you were able to provide even more insight to the poetry that I chose.
AMANDA: Amazing. Thank you for delivering unto me this poetry corner. Now I am looking of different roles of pomegranates in feminist ceremonies. There's excellent pomegranate satyr plates. Oh man, there's just, there's a lot to love here. I'm very excited.
JULIA: Shout out Aphrodite and Persephone, both our pomegranate girls.
AMANDA: Pomegranate girls. Nothing like it.
JULIA: Nothing like it. And remember next time you crack open a pomegranate, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool. Stay sexy.
JULIA: Stay sexy. Aphrodite wants you to be sexy.
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a forum to send us in your urban legends, and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
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JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye.
Transcribed by: John Matthew M. Sarong