Episode 294: Advice from Folklore IV (with Dr. Moiya McTier)
/Big questions, little questions, these figures of folklore, mythology and world religion are here to answer them. We tackle camp quandaries, quitting jobs, and the world burning with their help.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of ableism, mental health, depression, homophobia, climate change, fascism, and hate crimes.
Guest
Dr. Moiya McTier is a New York-based astrophysicist who studies planets outside of our solar system. She’s also a folklorist who specializes in using science and logic to build fictional worlds. You can hear all about the worlds she’s built on her podcast, Exolore, where she imagines, discusses, and reviews fictional worlds, often with expert guests. You can learn more about Moiya and her work on her website, moiyamctier.com.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends The Milky Way: An Autobiography of Our Galaxy by Dr. Moiya McTier!
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out the Queer Movie Podcast - a queer movie watch party hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join them as they research and rate their way through the queer film canon, one genre at a time. Search for Queer Movie Podcast in your podcast app to subscribe today!
Sponsors
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Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And we are joined as ever by Dr. Moiya McTier for Episode 294, Advice From Folklore.
[cheering]
DR. MOIYA: Hi, friends.
JULIA: Hey.
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA:
How's it going, Moiya? How's life?
DR. MOIYA: Oh, you know, I am alive. Most- this is an honest answer most things. Fantastic. Something's awful. But I am choosing to look on the bright side.
JULIA: That is fair. That is fair. I know that there is a big something or other coming up very soon for you.
DR. MOIYA: Yes, that's one of the wonderful things, my book is coming out in a month.
JULIA: Yay!
DR. MOIYA: Yay.
AMANDA: I have a copy. I have read it. I love it. Normally, I read an advanced copy of a book and then I gift it to somebody to enjoy this one, Moiya, I'm selfish. I'm keeping it.
JULIA: Me too.
AMANDA: within reach-
DR. MOIYA: Dude.
AMANDA: -on my shelf nearby at all times.
DR. MOIYA: Thank you so much. I can't wait to talk to you two about it.
JULIA: Oh, we cannot wait to hear about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you want to tell the people what the title of the book is and where they can find it or preorder it or order it?
DR. MOIYA:
Yes, you can find or preorder it anywhere. Literally, Target, Amazon, bookshop, whatever, maybe don't buy it from Amazon. I am partial to bookshop because you're supporting indie bookstores but the book is called the Milky Way an autobiography of our galaxy and it is exactly that the Galaxy narrated its own life story to me and I wrote it down so you can find that whenever.
JULIA: Incredible.
AMANDA: It is so like the parts I love of Advice From Folklore, if I may say so myself, if you like these episodes, you certainly need to buy Moiya's book.
JULIA: Agreed. I was gonna say, Moiya is already an expert in channeling all things mythological and religious, but also the Milky Way.
DR. MOIYA: I mean, it's the same thing, right?
JULIA: Yeah, same basic concept. I appreciate your ability to inhabit these other worldly things.
DR. MOIYA: Thank you.
AMANDA: So without further ado, let's get right into it. Folks, I have a question here from Catie on Instagram, who writes. "How do I politely quit a job?" Hmm. Who's got some advice for Katie from folklor,e mythology and religion and world history?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, Katie, we got you covered. Also, you asked this question so politely so straightforward to the point, love it. But we have an answer for you. That goes, "Ah wee Catie, I was prized among my people, for brawn and brilliance both. I fought fiercely for the Fianna, and immortalized them with my words… Or so I thought. Three centuries later and they were little more than dust on the wind. And I realized you can’t move a stone with a memory. Still, it’s not the leaving that I lament, but the way I went about it. No preparation, no plan, all problem. I followed her, Niamh, turned my back on my clan, And naively assumed I’d soon see them again My sudden departure left a hole to be filled, Or maybe a crack that made way for the whole scene to shatter. I should have told someone, left a note… No I can’t let those thoughts in. But I can ensure you don’t make the mistakes I did. Give plenty of warning, smooth over any cracks, And give them a way to contact you, In case they ever want you back. Your in quick time, Oisín"
AMANDA: Oisín! Oh my god, everybody's giant Irish cousin.
DR. MOIYA: I love Oisín and I realized that I haven't channeled like an Irish folklore character in a while, so it just felt right. Oisín in case you aren't familiar, is a figure from the Fenian cycle of Irish mythology. This is the collection of stories describing the deeds of irish heroes like Fionn MacCumhaill, who was Oisin’s father. Oisin was a warrior and poet, a bard, which is why I channeled this poetry this verse, this prose in classic old Irish poetry form, which didn't have a lot of rhyming, but a lot of alliteration. Oisin was a warrior and poet, fought with the Fianna which was a band of protective soldiers in Ireland and is largely credited with documenting their deeds. So a lot of the stories we have about them may or may not have actually been written by Oisin was a warrior and poet, who may or may not have actually been a real person, but that's the author that is given to us. Perhaps the most well known story about Oisin was a warrior and poet, is called Oisin in Tir na nOg, which means Land of the Young and that was the name of an otherworldly place where the Fae people lived. One day, Oisin was out hunting with the Fianna when this beautiful woman with long golden hair came by riding on a white horse.
JULIA: Naturally.
DR. MOIYA: And challenged him to go with her. Naturally, right you know, this hot babe appears when you're out hunting, you're gonna get on that horse.
AMANDA: Of course, you will.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, well, Oisin, he got, he got on the horse, her name was Niamh Chinn Oir, she was essentially a fairy princess. And when Oisin went back with her to Tir na nOg, he married her became her king and they lived happily ever after for a couple of years, they lived happily ever for a couple of years. They had a couple of kids and he was loving his life, but he's still missed home. So Niamh offered Oshin her horse to go back to Ireland and visit his homeland, but warns him not to touch foot on Irish soil. And I know you both know what's going to happen next.
JULIA: Oh, boy.
DR. MOIYA: Because anytime in mythology, someone gives a warning, like don't touch a thing, don't eat a thing, don't do- they're gonna do it and it's gonna be bad.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: There are a few different versions of the story and some, the saddle breaks. And he falls in some he happens upon a couple of people who are trying to move a big rock in the road, but can't because in the time that Oisin's been gone, the Irish have gotten puny and weak. So he leans down to help them move the stone and he falls over and touches the Irish soil. And the rub here is that he thinks he's been gone for a couple years, it's actually been three centuries, it's been 300 years.
JULIA: No!
AMANDA: This is truly a who's who of mythological tropes that I love. Time travel, man.
DR. MOIYA: Right. So it's been 300 years, Christianity has come to Ireland, like I said before, the Irish People have become weaker than they were in Oisin's day. And all of this catches up with him the moment that he touches the soil. So he immediately becomes this old man who can't live anymore. And in his last moments, according to some legends, he tells St. Patrick his story and that's, that's how we have it today.
JULIA: He just happens to be walking by St. Patrick, you know, the classic move.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, you know, there's no such thing as coincidence, right. It's all meant to be. But I think that really what Oisin is saying here is that there are a lot of ways to quit a job well, there are few ways to quit a job poorly. And that's what Oisin did. And I will add as Moiya that, you know, I don't know your particular situation, Katie, but in most cases, you don't owe your employer anything, and they probably don't care that much about you, especially if it's this like big chain employer situation. So if leaving is in your best interest, Katie, and they're being jerks about that, then you don't really want to maintain a bridge with them anyway.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah, I will say like, having professional context is important, especially in various different fields. But at the same time, if that job is mistreating you, if there is just been conflict there that you don't want to keep associating with potentially toxic people, it's okay to just cut and run. So I would recommend that if that seems like the right thing to do for you, you can do it.
AMANDA: Yeah, you got to look out for your own interests. And if giving them a notice period, or saying, hey, I'm planning to resign at the end, or I'm resigning, and I'd like to leave, you know, at the end of next week, or at the end of this month, look out for yourself, make sure you're not giving them any reason not to like return your stuff. We're not giving you your last paycheck, or whatever you need to do. And of course, whenever possible, have a next thing to go to. But that's not what you're asking, you're asking how do I politely quit? And the answer is, "Hey, I am resigning. Let me know what I have to do. This is my last day that I would like to do, does that work for you?" Because just like Moiya said, this is a very normal thing for employers, they have people quit jobs, depending on the size of the company every day, every week, every year. For you, it's much less usual and much less normal. And so it's a much bigger deal for you than it is for them. And I think just abiding by their rules, and nothing else is the way to go. You don't need to train your replacement for free, you don't need to write a manual of your job. If you don't have time to do it, all you got to do is the bare minimum and that is how to politely quit a job.
JULIA: Yes. Also, if you want to be polite, and you want to keep good bridges with certain people at the company, it's always nice to like write a thank you note or like a thank you email or something like that after you've left. Like I appreciate your help with so and so or I appreciate your mentorship while I was there, I hope we can keep in contact. So that also creates a nice polite bridge, where if that person also leaves in the future and is recruiting for other kinds of jobs, you might be able to use that relationship in the future. Look out for your damn self.
AMANDA: Because your employer certainly won't.
JULIA: Dang right.
AMANDA: Excellent. Thank you, Moiya. Thank you, Oisin. Now let's help out Ricky from Instagram who asks, "How do I build a home in a place where I will only temporarily stay? I'll be living in this room for six months."
JULIA: "Weary traveler, Your home might not have a hearth, a fire to tend to, but that does not mean that you are so far from me that I cannot hear your call and answer. When people traveled to a new home, far from the land that they came from, they would call for me, bring a piece of me, a flame from the hearth of their former home to make their new one truly a home. You may not have a flame to bring with you, but I believe that you must have something that can be the hearth of your home, the central point that can make this place you occupy a home. What can you tend to? Are you like my sister, who tends to the plants and fields? Perhaps you are like my niece, who prefers to care for animals and other furry friends? Perhaps there is an heirloom that you have brought with you that brings you fond memories and care. Often, I know, the thing that makes a place a home is time and the energy that you put into it. But perhaps when you arrive back there after a long day of traveling or work, and see the thing that you can tend to - a pot, a plant, a pet, a hearth - you will know that this is the home that you have, at least for now. And when it is inevitably time for you to find a new home, you can bring that piece with you, a memory that wherever you are, that too will become a home so long as you are in it. Yours by the hearth, Hestia."
AMANDA: Hestia.
JULIA: And I know we just recently did an episode on Hestia.
AMANDA: But Julia, who better to advise our question asker, Ricky?
JULIA: I know and there are a lot of great both house goddesses house gods and how Spirits across the earth Hestia it's just been on my mind since we did the It's All Greek To Me episode. And it seems like she's the right person to talk to you in terms of like, this big moment in your life, which is moving to a new place, even if it doesn't feel like a home. And even though you know it's temporary, you can create that like space and energy by finding something to make it feel like home finding something that you can center that piece of nostalgia or peace of comfort. So I like the idea of like, perhaps you have like a pot that you brought with you and you enjoy making your favorite meal. And maybe you have a potted plant that just makes it feel like home, if you have a pet to return home to maybe it's something like as easy as a fish or something as complicated as a dog. But it's all about creating this space and putting the right energy into it, even though you don't have a lot of time to put energy into it.
DR. MOIYA: I love that. And I would just add that six months is longer than you think it is, think of all the things that happens to you in six months, that's two seasons, that's multiple types of wardrobes like you are going to be in this home for a good amount of time, and you'll have the time to make it your own. So even if it feels like you're just going to be leaving soon, you know, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't have to be that short.
JULIA: Right. And like, it's also as temporary as you make it you know, like if you're like aren't just gonna think of this in terms of weeks or months or whatever. And then we'll be done. Great. You don't have to unpack all your boxes if you don't want to, if you know you're going to be moving on. But at the same time, like that could also be as cozy as you want to make it you can unpack all your boxes, you can feel like your whole life is there in that room. And maybe that'll give you some comfort in that six-month period.
AMANDA: Yeah, and I'm really glad that you are thinking and asking about this, Ricky because I think it can be really tempting to sort of say to yourself, oh, well, it's going to be temporary. So I shouldn't put the effort in, or it's going to be temporary and like I can live out of a hotel room or an anonymous room for six months and like it'll be fine, but you deserve it and having a home and a hearth is so important. That's why you know, we talked in the Hestia episode about why you know, she is such a fundamental god and why these things that she represents and values are sort of the defining markers of humanity and everybody deserves to feel at home in their home whether that's their you know, favorite tea cup, their own bed sheets on the bed, or even something like marking time passing in this place like Moiya suggested maybe you you know, take a picture of the view outside your window every day and then you can see how it changes in the sky and the hour changes over time. I often find that observing life my life from the outside can help me appreciate it while I'm in it. Whether that's you know, in college I used to take video blogs of me you know walking around and learning the city or my bag and my wallet and my like inner bag in the bag and my keychain in different places like my house keys in London was like a fun thing that was like wow, this is really my life and I'm living it and seeing that in a physical object and documenting it for myself was a useful way to feel what a while time I still need this is still my life this is real and sharing that with close friends or just having you know a little album of your phone of you know the daily view or my daily dinner or you know my laundry Saturdays and like what I get done those days documenting it may be helpful to notice those things while it's happening to you.
JULIA: Absolutely. I love that idea of taking a picture of the outside of your window every day, Amanda, that's so cool.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, make a nice little mosaic.
AMANDA: Right?
JULIA: Or like a time-lapse video. That would also be fun.
AMANDA: If you're more tech-savvy, I'd suggest actually but I don't know how to do that.
JULIA: It's just an album and then you just let it slowly go through if you have like an iPhone or something. I don't know.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: So I want to add just before we move on to the next question that like I totally understand the idea that like your mental health is definitely impacted by the place that you live. Like, I don't know if I've talked a lot about this on the show, but the apartment that I moved out of before we moved into our new home, I felt so much better after leaving that apartment because that apartment was not serving me whatsoever. I felt like a, like an animal trapped in a cage in that apartment. And as much as I made it feel like cozy and feel like home, it just also did feel like I was just trapped in a very beautiful cage at the end of it. So like, I totally understand that like the idea that this place is not my home, this is not my permanent place. This is not the thing that I'm going to be in forever can be really stressful and sometimes harmful for your mental health. And I want to acknowledge that before we kind of move on to the next question. And I know six months can either be a very short time or a very long time in the grand scheme of things, but I'm sure you will find ways of making it feel like someplace you can be comfortable and feel healthy in.
AMANDA: Very well put. Let's now turn to Elle from our Instagram who asks, "I can't seem to find the energy, enthusiasm or motivation to do anything I used to love. What do I do?"
DR. MOIYA: "Sweet Elle, Have you ever struggled to fall asleep? You close your eyes, slow your breathing, and count your heartbeats until you drift to unconsciousness. 1, 2, 3… but you count for what feels like forever and the sleep doesn’t come. Some try to fight this, try to force sleep to take them over. They try to force me to welcome them into my embrace and share with them my bucket of dreams. But I refuse to be summoned like that, so they are unsuccessful. The wise ones have learned to let me chase them. They leave their beds and do their small mortal tasks until I catch them in my grasp. Motivation and energy are like sleep; they will not come if you try to force it. Instead of willing yourself to do things and beating yourself up when it doesn’t work, embrace me for a while. Rest, dear child. I will pour the dreamy waters over your eyelids, and you can explore your desires safely in my dreamland. I offer this not to steal you away from your joy or ambition, but to give you the space to find them again. I know some mortals fear that if they stop, if they rest, they will never wake again. Like getting up to fall asleep, the opposite is true. Rest now so that when you do eventually find your enthusiasm again, likely when you least expect it, you’ll have the energy to run with it, and you’ll know how to aim for your wildest dreams. Sleepily yours, Nidra."
JULIA: Nidra.
DR. MOIYA: Nidra Devi. Nidra Devy is the Hindu goddess of sleep. She looks over the sleepless the tired, the lethargic, the pale, and those who face mental challenges and that can be as vague and as abstract as you want it to be. She is thought to be an incarnation of Parvati the goddess of power, energy and life. And it said that when you are sleeping when you are in the embrace of Nidra that she has control over your power and your energy, she's really powerful. She plays a key role in the Ramayana, which is an epic poem about a prince named Rama going on a quest to save his wife, Sita, Rama's brother Lakshmana, agrees to look over Rama for 14 years without sleeping, which is a really great move for a younger brother. But Nidra was angry wondering why Lakshmana was denying her. Why are you refusing to sleep? And Laksmana says, "Look, Nidra, I have to look over my brother, I can't sleep he'll get in trouble." So instead, they come up with this arrangement where Lakshmana's wife, Urmila will sleep for him. So she sleeps for 14 years straight, giving up her life, giving up the physical times of marriage for that for 14 years, she-
AMANDA: Wow.
DR. MOIYA: -she leaves her life and Nidra makes that possible. For Elle, I have had a similarly actually, I don't know, I don't want to assume that our situations are similar. But I've also had trouble finding my motivation and my energy. I still don't know if I have managed to find it. But I do know that when I was really actively trying to force myself to be motivated when I was trying to force myself to do things that I thought I should enjoy, I couldn't enjoy them. And it was only when I let myself stop. And you know, things will find you you don't have to force yourself to try and find them. So it was only when I got myself to stop and rest and take a break that I even had the space to enjoy things again.
AMANDA: So true.
JULIA: I find that like both enthusiasm and motivation come in waves and I don't know if that's true for everyone, but I find that as my personal experience, and it also feels like things like enthusiam wasn't for certain projects or certain activities and stuff also comes in waves. So sometimes I'll be like, yeah, man, it's gonna be like three weeks of video games as much as I can like any chance I get. And then I'll go for like a couple of months of being like, you know what I can put down the games for a little bit, I'm feeling not as fulfilled as I was by that activity. And I think that while I wish that I was fulfilled by that activity, I also don't want to force myself and then feel like frustrated with playing or that sort of thing. And I recently was talking to my therapist about like, trying to find time to do things that I love outside of the things that I do for work that I love. And she's like, the concept of play is so important for adults and we oftentimes forget about that. So giving yourself something that feels productive and fun and enthusiastic, like outside of work time, makes you feel more energized, makes you feel more enthusiastic about things makes you feel more motivated. And I think that's like an important thing to think about where it's like, you need to make time to play in this case, play can also be rest or like, not super engaging activities, but you need to give yourself that extra time.
AMANDA: Totally. And, you know, for me, the way you describe what you're feeling right now, is for me how my depression usually manifests. And for me, therapy and medication are two big ways that I manage that. And when I am feeling those feelings, and doing all my steps, and doing my rest and taking my walks and taking my showers and keeping myself fed and doing all of the things that I feel like I should be doing that should be working, sometimes changing or adjusting my medication is the thing that does work for me. And so you know, nobody but you and the team of people who care for you can figure out the best route for you. But I also want to mention that because I think that's ultimately the answer for me and might be worth exploring for you. But it's not something you've done yet.
JULIA: Yeah. I feel like we're a commercial, like, talk to your doctor today about, hey, change your medication, maybe?
AMANDA: Sometimes that's it, sometimes it's not sometimes it's rare. Sometimes it's changed. Sometimes it's you've changed, and you know, the things that make you happy are different. But if the answer is you know, I can't find motivation or happiness or optimism anywhere, then you not enjoying your life, you know, you should treat as an emergency. And you deserve to, and you don't have to just go through life, making it through and hoping that things will improve one day or figure that this is how it is going to be. That's not how other people feel. And that was really surprising to me when I learned that and I was like, what do you mean? So getting the help of mental health professionals is always worth trying is not the only thing. It's not the only worthy thing that you can do. It's not always the right fit. So not always the right call, but it's something that I needed somebody to tell me you're allowed to do this right. And it may be worth trying. And I was like, oh, yeah, I wish I wasn't 20 and someone told me this before. So I think worth worth saying.
JULIA: Oh, that's great advice. And I'm sure some people listening to this probably needed to hear that. Hey, your feelings matter?
AMANDA: They sure do.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, your feelings matter. One thing one small thing that has helped me is I drew a picture on my whiteboard. I have like a little stick figure me with the quote bubble saying, "Cut yourself some slack." And when I feel like I should have more energy or motivation or like I'm doing something wrong, I look at that stick figure, little stick figure me saying, "Cut yourself some slack." And I remember that, like it's, it's okay. Not everyone has to be 100% all the time. No one should be 100% all the time. Otherwise, it's not 100% anymore.
JULIA: Yeah. Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: So cut yourself some slack.
AMANDA: If everybody's an above average driver, not everybody's an above average driver. You know, you can't you can't be performing a top form all the time.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: That doesn't make any sense.
JULIA: 100%.
AMANDA: I'm gonna go look at some of those gorgeous new photos of space that we have now. So folks, join me in the kitchen for a quick refill.
DR. MOIYA: Let's do that.
JULIA: Yeah, let's do it.
[midroll]
AMANDA:
Hello, it is Amanda, and welcome to the refill. It's very hot outside and so we're going to make sure that we do the refill nice and quick and then get you back to this lovely episode. So first and foremost, welcome to our newest patrons. Thank you CannonCookie and Samantha for joining the crew. You join the ranks of supporting producers, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Daisy, Froody Chick, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Lily, Little Vomit Spiders Running Around, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi and our legend level patrons Arianna, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Clara, Iron Havoc, Morgan, Mother of Vikings, Sarah, & Bea Me Up Scotty. 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You can get zero delivery fees exclusive items and more than 25,000 members-only offers nationwide with DashPass you save an average of $45 on every order you place for delivery or pickup I have DashPass I pay for it myself because I find it really useful and I use DoorDash a lot. In fact it pays for itself on average when you ordered just twice a month so shine bright during Doordashes this summer of DashPass and get 50% off your first order of up to $15 of value. Use promo code Spirits at checkout when you spend 12 bucks or more that's 50% off your first order up to $15 in value when you sign up for DoorDash during Summer of DashPass using promo code Spirits. Don't forget that code Spirits for 50% off your first order up to $15 in value. DashPass benefits only on eligible orders that meet the minimum subtotal. Terms apply. Eric Schneider was here last week for our live show in New York City and when he arrived I had just taken a loaf of everything sourdough bread out of the oven from Wildgrain and he walked in he was like damn, it's really like an ad in here. And you know what it was it was delicious. I was so impressed as a baker how good this bread was. And in the successive days I have had their fresh frozen pasta. I've had their peach bites a delicious dessert. I made their croissants for us for breakfast. They were really freaking good. I was so impressed. Wildgrain is the first bake from Frozen box for artisanal bread and the hype is real people it is really really good. Julia's mother in Law Order wild grain thank you, Toni and really enjoyed it. It's impressive stuff. Every item bakes from frozen and 25 minutes or less. They've really clear instructions it comes already frozen. So you have to worry that there's something like you know, was wrong or it tastes like it was never frozen. 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There are lots of ways you can take care of your mind for me that is taking my nightly bath that's making a lot of time to read and escape into other worlds and having therapy once a week and it was real be hard for me to find somebody in even in New York City, even in a place that is so populous and has lots and lots of therapists that was taking new patients that I vibed with that wasn't really terrible to get there via public transit. And that had times during the week that I could actually fit into my schedule. And so I ended up going back to therapy via BetterHelp. Because I can meet with my therapist on my own schedule, and do video, phone or even live chat sessions. It is really, really helpful. 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[end of midroll]
JULIA: Moiya, I want to ask you about cocktails. But also, more importantly, I want to ask you about those telescope photos.
DR. MOIYA: Yes, um, gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous. I am very disappointed that when they released the images, they had Biden and Harris there to like, give some shields before it. And then they just threw the image up on a screen. And like, yes, that image is beautiful, the Deep Field images, all the galaxies, we're seeing deeper into the universe than we've ever seen before. Absolutely gorgeous. But most people don't know that they don't have any point of reference. So even if they had just thrown up the Hubble Deep Field image, which is essentially the precursor to this JWST image and like, gradually blurred into the other one just to show the difference to give a point of reference.
AMANDA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. Other than that, I am blown away by how stunning these images are. I will say that there's a movement in astronomy not to use the name of the telescope, because the person that the telescope was named after was pretty instrumental in the Lavender Scare at NASA and getting persecuting queer people at NASA. So JWST instead of saying the name or [32:04] jealous scope, well, a scope Space Telescope.
JULIA: I love that version myself.
AMANDA: Thank you for telling us that.
DR. MOIYA: I've also seen the [32:11] Ji-Betty White Space Telescope. So yeah, that's it.
JULIA: I like that one.
AMANDA: Astronomers are so creative
JULIA: And Moiya cocktail. Would you recommend drinking while checking out these Ji-Betty White Telescope photos?
DR. MOIYA: Oh, I haven't been drinking many cocktails lately. I would say something that's like purple-y and pink. Oh, there's this tea. There's a tea that my mom has sent me that changes color when you add lemon juice to it.
AMANDA: Oh.
DR. MOIYA: So it goes from like purple to blue or it depends on the temperature and the exact chemicals involved. But I think that's what I will drink when looking at these space images tonight.
JULIA: Excellent. I believe that's butterfly pea tea. And it is very, very good. Highly recommend.
AMANDA: I had a butterfly pea tea lemonade at my favorite local Thai restaurant recently. And I was like, this is the best thing I've ever had. It's so good.
DR. MOIYA: Wow.
JULIA: Excellent.
AMANDA: Would also be good with gin probably if that's the thing that you want, but on its own. I was like I'm happy with this. This is good.
JULIA: Can confirm. Very good with gin
AMANDA: Cool. Alright, people. Let's give some more help to some more conspirators. This is from Sarah on Instagram, "How do I get better at socializing and making friends?"
JULIA: "Dear Sarah, I bring you good news - you humans love making friends! It is essential to your humanity, to the order of the universe, to the balance of how the world works. And the other humans out there in the world, they are also searching for friendship, for connection and meaning. You are not alone in that regard, and that should be a comfort. Perhaps sometimes the initiation of this friendship can be awkward - like puzzle pieces, you may find that not everyone is the right fit for you. And that can be frustrating to put yourself out there, to try to make a connection only for it to fizzle out. But that does not mean it is not worth trying! A true friend will be something of a beacon in a dark night, a guiding star in the night sky. You will know it when you meet that person, or people. But first you must put yourself on the path in which you may spot that beacon in the dark. It’s difficult sometimes to find that path - but perhaps following paths that are already familiar to you might lead you down one that will lead to friendship. After all, if you both find yourself on the same path, is it not likely that you share things besides that path as well? Regardless of the winding and twisting paths, I know you will find one that will lead you to a meaningful friendship, or friendships! Yours in friendship, Mitra" and I'm so glad Moiya that we got two Hindu gods and goddesses here, makes me very happy. So Mitra is the god of friendship, integrity, harmony and all else that is important to keeping the order of human existence in Hinduism. So in his role as the divinity of friendship he is against like all violence, even violence justified by other gods. His name is also used as a noun that means friend and the Indo-Iranian roots associated with the name or covenant, contract, oath or treaty. So in the Rigveda, he is paired with Varuna, who is the guardian of the cosmic order, and who acts kind of as a complement for Mitra as he is the like representation of human order. So there's cosmic order and there's human order. Mitra is also associated with sunrise is typically worshipped in sunrise prayers. And in certain texts, he states that these are like the characteristics of a true friend. So he will prevent you from committing sins, he will encourage you to do good deeds, he will keep your secrets, he will praise your good qualities openly, he will not desert you in your periods of crisis. And he will give all the assistance when needed.
DR. MOIYA: Hmm, great friend.
AMANDA: Great friend.
JULIA: Really good friend. And make sense when you think about like his name is associated with like contracts or oaths or treaties. Because like, in order to kind of like have a relationship or have a friendship, you have to like know that you can rely on that other person and like, feel like you can be open and honest with that person. And so making those associations and also the fact that he is the like human existence, and like the representation of human order makes a lot of sense for those two things to be associated. And I think in terms of his advice, like, you know, putting yourself on a path that you you are familiar with, and like opening yourself up to both like new opportunities, like I'm thinking like, hey, man, maybe I really like softball. So I join a local softball league and try to make friends that way. I feel like adult sports and adult clubs are like a really good way of making friends as an adult. I don't know about you guys, but I'm just like, yeah, that's, that's a good way of doing it.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, I've seen people make friends doing the sports. I am less active these days than I used to be. I don't play many sports, but also crafts.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: If you're in a city there, there are software things that can help you there's meetup, which will help you find people with similar interests, like Bumble BFF. There are places online, you can find an internet path to a friendship if you want.
JULIA: Yes, the path doesn't have to be literal. It could be also on the internet.
AMANDA: Yeah, the like millennial Jewish newspaper, Alma does like a weekly sort of classified section for people looking for all kinds of companionship, both friends and people looking for hiking buddies and also romance. And it's really adorable. And like, that's a thing that is almost a cliche. It's been in publications for so long, or like the you know, community like bulletin, because that's the thing people really need. And it's hard to do. And you're not alone in finding this difficult.
JULIA: Yeah, it's it's weird and interesting. And it's also like really difficult to put yourself out there. I really liked the the puzzle piece analogy that miter makes here, where it's basically like, yeah, sometimes you put yourself out there and you try and not everyone's the best fit for you. But you do still have to put yourself out there to see if it's going to be a fit regardless. And sometimes that is like making plans with someone that never like ends up happening. Sometimes you hang out a couple times, and you're just not vibing. And yeah, it is hard. Making friends is hard, especially as an adult because you're not just like forced into peer groups of people who are the same age and location as you.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: And that is difficult.
DR. MOIYA: Also, as adults, other people tend to already have friends.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: So it might feel like you have to break into an existing circle.
AMANDA: Yeah, but I bet almost every adult wishes, that something were different about their friendship so that they had more that it came easier. I don't think you're alone at all, Sarah in feeling this way. And I hope too, that you like I love that you phrase this not as, "How can I find more friends?" But, "How do I get better at socializing and making friends?' And I hope that just like Julia says, you know, even if you put yourself out there and make these attempts, and they don't necessarily result in like a BFF, who you talk to every day and see all the time that you did it and doing something that makes you uncomfortable or that you want to improve that is worthwhile, regardless of the outcome. And something that I too try to improve on in my life is being proud of myself, even when the result isn't what I wanted. When I do something and I try and I do it imperfectly or I have notes about how I wish I had done it better or it doesn't achieve the thing I wanted. I can still be proud of myself even if nobody notices and even if it's not obvious and it's just me I can notice and you deserve friends are out there people are there. It is really freaking hard to find people in the world for many reasons all the time. But you know that you are doing it and improving and you can be proud of yourself and be a friend to yourself as well.
JULIA: 100%. Couldn't put it better myself.
AMANDA: Thank you, Julia. Thank you, Mitra. Here's one from Designbillie, "How to be okay. When the world is so not okay." Well, put also. I second this. This is also from Amanda of Spirits.
JULIA: Yeah, it's a hard one. It's a hard one.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, this is something that we all wanted an answer to. So I'm glad that I got to channel this response. Design. Billy, "My sisters and I have felt your world burning for thousands of years, human. Every time you hacked through our forests, through our very limbs to fuel your fires. Our roots are connected, you know. We feel each others’ pain. So much pain, but we can’t let that stop us from doing our part to bank the flames (metaphorically speaking, I would never voluntarily be near actual fire). If I gave up hope, there would be absolutely no forest left, and nothing to fight for. I take breaks, of course. I love my winter naps when the Sun gets shy and stingy, and the carefree focus required to follow the slow, aimless creap of sap dripping down my bark rejuvenates my soul. But the real thing that makes me feel okay is knowing that I still do my part to keep the whole world from becoming ash. I love to make sure my tree is getting all the fuel it needs, I cherish the animals who take shelter and live their lives among my roots and branches. I marvel at the brave, lonely weeds that dare to push their way through your city sidewalks, and I offer them what passing support I can, however small. Do I wish the world were in a better state and that you humans would leave my home and kin alone? Of course. But ultimately, I’m okay with the world being not okay because I force myself to do okay things in the world, okay? My fears and concerns may consume me at night, but the sun rises each morning, and my leaves bask in its early light. It reminds me that not all that burns, will break. Like warm wind through the leaves, A Dryad." just like a random dryad. Dryads are tree nymphs and forest spirits from Greek mythology. I didn't know this, but apparently originally dryads specifically meant the spirits of oak trees. But now it's more general and it just means the spirit of any tree. Ddyads are the life force of the tree. So like the spiritual embodiment of the tree, if the dryad dies the tree dies and vice versa. So I figured that you know a dry add I opened myself up to a dryad because they know exactly what it's like to feel the world burning. But also to feel the the urge to to fight against that burning. Yeah, the world is hard right now. And it can feel really easy to to give up hope and to stop doing anything to make a positive impact on the world. But we can't stop doing that. We can take breaks, we can give ourselves rest. We can support other people while they're doing rest or while they're trying to fight the burning. But like we cannot all give up hope. Especially not at the same time.
JULIA: This question is a hard one. And I appreciate you Moiya trying to channel it because I didn't feel up to it to be quite honest. And I think part of that is I tend to be very hard on myself in terms of feeling like I'm not doing enough. And I know that's kind of the point of like everything that's happening in the world, like the point of society, and like a fascist society is to exhaust people who can make a difference into inaction. And I feel very guilty about that a lot of the times that I feel like I have been exhausted into an action and there's like little things that I feel like I can do that aren't you know, marching or, you know, physically being out there with my body supporting people I can donate financially, I can motivate others by spreading the words about various causes and protests. And I know a lot of times for me, that doesn't feel like enough. But I also don't want to discourage other people fully into inaction as well. Like even the smallest movement can make a difference.
DR. MOIYA: Well, Julia, the things you listed, those weren't small, those are big things.
JULIA: I know. I know.
DR. MOIYA: Marching, donating money. Those are big things that you can do and I think what the dryad is trying to say is that you can do even smaller things. Like smile at a person on the street to let them know that the world isn't just full of terrible people who wish them harm. Wish someone to have a nice day like you can do these really small things. But it doesn't even have to be interacting with another person. It can be shifting your mindset it can be reading something The tiniest things really do make a difference.
AMANDA: Yeah, curiosity and humanity are so easy to kind of let go of when we are being intentionally exhausted and deprived of resources. And those things are what give other people the, you know, hope and strength to keep going and make the differences that they can. And that might be curiosity and discussion with people in your neighborhood, something I took out of the pandemic is what a concrete difference my literal neighborhood of the you know, half a mile or so around my house really makes to me, and you know, contributing to my community fridge, volunteering to, you know, clean up parks and give back to local businesses like choosing to pay a little bit more to the place around the corner that I really want to stay in business versus something that is more convenient, or getting it online, when I can. Those are small ways that I can make sure that the people around me are okay, when the world is not very okay, indeed. And why I think it's so important that you touched on rest as well, because I know I find it a lot more complicated to fight back when I am one of my identities is the thing being targeted by you know, a hate crime by legislation, you know, that's posing as a law, but it's actually a hate crime. And so what I kind of do in responses is I let myself process it when I am directly affected. And I doubly make sure that I put effort into looking after when I'm not affected, I think it's you know, it's it's doubly important for nonblack people to show up on behalf of black people, it's doubly important for cis people to show up on behalf of trans people. Certainly important for people who are not queer to show up on behalf of queer people, because for so many reasons, you know, us putting our bodies money, resources, voices on the line, whatever combination of that you have available, I find a lot of energy in doing that, when it's not me that is being targeted so that I feel a little better. And I know that others are showing up for me, when it's me. It's hard.
DR. MOIYA: It's also right to take a moment to scream. Well, that's okay. I scream a lot. I do a lot of very frustrated grunts and it helps that sometimes the best way to be okay with the world not being okay is to admit to yourself that the world is not okay.
JULIA: 100%
DR. MOIYA: Because it's the denial of that, that that gets us into real trouble.
AMANDA: I texted one of my siblings today and said like, everything sucks, and it's not okay. And it's not fair. And they said it sure isn't. And like that was you know, that's a little moment of connection of care of reaching out in my sadness and not burrowing inward, that, you know, tells them that I trust them as well. So all those little moments, the you know, thinking the tree shaping my walk home, keeping your heart open, and noticing people around you is so brave. And so so against what people trying to extinguish you want you to do. It's not all we need to do, but it's important to
JULIA: Let's, let's move on to a later question.
DR. MOIYA: Maybe a deep breath first.
[deep breaths]
AMANDA: You know there are apps that have visualizations to help you remember to breathe to look at something while you breathe in and out. I like those apps. I didn't know about them. You should download one. Let's close out with a question from Laura, who says, "Going to be at camp with someone who ghosted me, any advice?" Oh my god!
DR. MOIYA: Drama!
JULIA: "Look, Laura, I am very familiar with trying to mind my own business in the woods, which I guess is something that you’ll be doing a lot this summer as well. Sometimes it feels as though everyone who enters the forest is looking for me, trying to find evidence of my existence, to the point where I can’t enjoy my time. It would be so much easier if I could just ignore the people who I want nothing to do with, and let’s be honest, I’m kind of shy. I don’t want to be hanging out with them anyway. It seems like your troubles could be solved the same way I solve mine - you see, while those cryptozoologists and adventurers are seeking me out, I’m hanging with the rest of the creatures in the forest. Who cares about the noisy humans and their messy camps and little problems when I’m busy having a good time, right? And c’mon, you’ve probably heard the stories that I like to play pranks on them when they’re least expecting, right? Look, fact of the matter is, the woods are big enough for me to hide in them, which means they're big enough that you don’t have to walk the same paths as the person who ghosted you. I know ghosts in the woods. They’re never fun at parties anyway. So enjoy your summer, there’s enough room in the woods for everyone. Your bud, Bigfoot"
DR. MOIYA: Bigfoot.
AMANDA: Oh, Bigfoot. I'm loving this personality that came through.
JULIA: Thank you. I was just like, Bigfoot feels like he would just be chill as fuck. So-
AMANDA: It's like, don't worry man, other spirits in the woods, other leaves on the trees. It's fine.
JULIA: And like, listen, a person ghosted you they're not worth your time anymore. That's how I feel. And yeah, you have to be in like the same like vague probably couple mile radius as them for the summer. But there's also other people to hang out with, you can go on hikes in the woods with other people, you can go play tennis with other people, you can go swim in the lake or swimming hole or other body of water with other people. It's fine, that person ignored you, ignore them back.
AMANDA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Also, they probably feel like they don't want to be around you either, like they're gonna be tried to avoid you too.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: You probably don't have to do that much work.
AMANDA: I was just gonna say that Moiya like they're the one who did, you know, arguably crappy thing here. But Laura, they probably feel more awkward than you do. And sometimes it is really empowering to realize that like other people in the world are not thinking about you, like you're thinking about you, and that you are a side character in their main story as opposed to the other way around. And if you were the person who goes through writing it, I'd be like, dawg, this is tough. But for you, you are flourishing living your life making out or not making out with whoever wants to make out or not make out with you. And you know, you you can have your camp memory and be like, what a you know, what a funny context to the way this started. If it helps to address it, if you guys see each other and you say, you know, I'm gonna acknowledge that this is a little bit awkward, and I'm gonna move on with my summer. Have a good one. That seems to me a pretty good way or tell a friend, you know? Like if it helps to confide in somebody and be like, gosh, you know what a situation you can write this stuff and then get on with your summer. That would probably help me just to kind of vocalize it somewhere. Whether it's a journal, a trusted friend at home, a trusted friend at camp or directly if the situation calls for it.
JULIA: Also, if they end up being an asshole about it, I and Bigfoot give you permission to like tip a canoe that they're in later.
AMANDA: Yeah, a mild prank, I think is a great idea.
JULIA: Exactly.
DR. MOIYA: If I had ghosted someone and I saw them at a camp where I had to spend the rest of the summer with them, and they like, winked at me or gave me like a jaunty little wave. I would be so mortified as the ghoster I'd be like, "Oh, my God, they're just risen above my ghosting." you know? So yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Do what you want, Laura.
AMANDA: What would Amanda Bynes in She's the Man do?
JULIA: Isn't there a phrase like living your best life is the best revenge.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Is that right?
AMANDA: That's the thing.
JULIA: So like, Just live your best life man. Just do it.
AMANDA: Yeah. Say to yourself, what a what a weird situation, and then move on. Sometimes the fear of the awkwardness you can really deflate it. It's taking off the Scooby-Doo mask. You know, it's saying haha, I see you I named you and I am going to have a wonderful time. And we know you're going to have a wonderful time, Laura.
JULIA: Hell yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, have a great camp summer.
JULIA: And if you see Bigfoot in the woods, say hey, for me.
AMANDA: Absolutely. Anyone, that goes with for any cryptid any of you.
DR. MOIYA: Yes.
AMANDA: If you see a cryptid in the woods, whisper, "Spirit says hi."
JULIA: Don't interact other than that.
AMANDA: Yeah. Yeah
JULIA: Like don't acknowledge their presence except to tell them, "Spirit says hi."
AMANDA:
I'm into it. Moiya, Julia, thank you so much for taking on these questions, for channeling these figures from folklore mythology, world religion. I feel a little bit more hopeful a little bit more equipped to go on with my week in my day and you know what, I really needed that.
JULIA: I'm glad we can hopefully give at least some peace of mind to the people who are listening or the people who wrote in these questions. So thank you, Amanda, as always.
AMANDA:
So please pick up Dr. Moiya McTier's book wherever books are sold. We'll have a link in the description as well. And remember everybody-
JULIA: Stay creepy and say hi to Bigfoot
AMANDA: Stay cool.
[outro]
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a form to send us in your urban legends and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more. Like recipe cards with alcoholic and nonalcoholic for every single episode, directors' commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye!
Transcriptionist: KM