Episode 259: Advice from Folklore VI (with Dr. Moiya McTier)
/The gods are back to give advice, with advice dealing with angsty teenagers from a teacher of gods, to learning to become fluent in fae speak to get out of uncomfortable conversations. Just in time for the holidays!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of arranged marriage, abuse, burning, ableism, pregnancy, misogyny, apocalypse, climate change, and racism.
Guest
Dr. Moiya McTier is a New York-based astrophysicist who studies planets outside of our solar system. She’s also a folklorist who specializes in using science and logic to build fictional worlds. You can hear all about the worlds she’s built on her podcast, Exolore, where she imagines, discusses, and reviews fictional worlds, often with expert guests. You can learn more about Moiya and her work on her website, moiyamctier.com.
Housekeeping
- MERCH! Get the Mothman Crewneck at spiritspodcast.com/merch!
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends My Best Friend’s Exorcism by Grady Hendrix.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out Join the Party, a collaborative storytelling and roleplaying podcast co-hosted in part by Julia and Amanda. Search for Join the Party in your podcast app, or go to jointhepartypod.com.
Sponsors
- Doordash is a fast, convenient food delivery app. Get 25% off and zero delivery fees on your first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter code creepycool.
- She’s Birdie is a personal safety alarm. Get 15% off your first purchase at shesbirdie.com/spirits
- Brooklinen delivers luxury bed sheets, pillows, comforters, & blankets straight to your door. Go to Brooklinen.com right now and use promo code “spirits” to get $25 off when you spend $100 or more, PLUS free shipping.
Find Us Online
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests’ books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books.
Transcript
JULIA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Julia. Amanda has started her Thanksgiving vacation a little early and this is Episode 259: Advice from Folklore #6 with Dr. Moiya McTier. I really love these episodes, honestly. It's so much fun to get to channel the gods and to hear some incredible insight from both of my friends. So, thank you Moiya, as always for being on these episodes. And thank you to our newest patrons: Kat and Amy. They joined the ranks of our Supporting-producer level patrons like: Uhleeseeuh, Bryan, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi. As well as our Legend-level patrons: Audra, Bex, Clara, Drew, Jaybaybay, Lexus, Mary, Morgan, Morgan H., Mother of Vikings, Sarah, Taylor, & Bea Me Up Scotty.
Now, this is the part where Amanda usually asks me what I've been watching, reading, or listening to lately, and I have to say, I have been really using my Libby app. I've been taken out some real great ebooks from my library and this week, I want to recommend to you; My Best Friend's Exorcism by Grady Hendrix, because oh boy, not only is it a great book, but it really just made me value and love my friends a lot more. So, if that's something that you feel like you should have a little bit of a refresher on, it's a great book for that.
And if that leaves you wanting more recommendations, let me recommend a show from Multitude: Join the Party is a collaborative storytelling and role playing podcast powered by the rules of Dungeons and Dragons that Amanda and I are both players on. The first campaign is a high fantasy adventure with intrigue, and magic, and drama, and a gay wedding. And the newest campaign, which I'm playing in is all about superheroes, but deals with stuff that, like, most people can relate to, Like dealing with the mistakes that our parents made, and learning about responsibility, and dealing with corrupt government. If that sounds like something that interests you, you can join the party by searching Join the Party in your podcast app or going to jointheparty.pod.com.
And finally, if you haven't picked up our Mothman tarot card crewneck, it is available at spiritspodcast.com/merch. And what are you doing? Don't you want Mothman's butt on your body? It looks so cute. It looks so good. You want to wear it. It's also super comfy. I love it so much. I've been wearing it, like, all the time when I know I don't have, like, meetings or have to go out and it is so, so, so cute.
So, go pick that up, and without further ado, here's Spirits Episode 259: Advice from Folklore #6 with Dr. Moiya Mctier.
AMANDA: Julia, Dr. DDS, City Councilperson, Moiya Mctier, editor at large. I'm going wedding dress shopping tomorrow. And I just feel like there is a lot of stuff I'm dealing with. There's a lot of kind of, like, exciting but also terrifying things ahead of me. And I'm feeling, like, I need to just sort of, like, hang out with... with my friends, and maybe the gods. And like, figure out what wisdom they have to share.
DR. MOIYA: They have so much wisdom. They've lived for a long time; they've learned a lot of stuff.
JULIA: They really have, honestly. They have a lot of things to say about even the most modern of problems.
AMANDA: Our first question today comes from DJ on Instagram. And it's something that my therapist and I talk about each and every week, so I feel quite called out and tagged in this photo, and I don't like it. DJ asks, "How can I learn to ask for help?"
DR. MOIYA: I'm also tagged in this photo, and I don't like it. So, I figured that was the perfect question to try and channel a response from the gods to. So, we... we have something for you, DJ. Dear child, in my line of work, I meet so many people who feel that they are at rock bottom. Pushed past their limits to the point where no amount of help could make them happy and whole again. I'm not saying you're at that point, sweet pea and I hippity-hoppity hope you never reach it, but those poor souls have taught me a valuable lesson because no matter how hopeless they felt before I appeared to them, once I showed them what I can do, they can always think of at least five ways for me to help. Sweetness, this tells me that the thing holding most people back from asking for help isn't pride or shame or fear, it's that they don't know who can help them and what they can do. So, stop worrying about how to ask for help pumpkin and focus on the who, then the how is as easy as turning a mouse into a horse. Love, your Fairy Godmother.
JULIA: Ugh, so cute!
AMANDA: Moiya! Moiya, is this Cinderella lady?
DR. MOIYA: Yes, yes.
AMANDA: Yay!
DR. MOIYA: Most people are familiar with the concept of the Fairy Godmother because of Disney hits like Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty but the character is actually kind of rare and relatively recent in folklore which I was surprised to learn.
JULIA: Mhmm.
DR. MOIYA: The figure became more common in the 17th century after works by French writers like Charles Perrault and Madame d'Aulnoy came into parlance and, like, got read by a bunch of people, but the Fairy Godmother wasn't always this kind savior character that we're more familiar with. Madame d'Aulnoy gave the evil stepsister in her story The Bluebird, a Fairy Godmother, who arranged a marriage with the prince, and was a big obstacle for the heroine in the story, in Finette Cendron or Cunning Cinders, as the English might say, the main character Finette has a Fairy godmother, but the Fairy godmother then gets mad at her for not taking advice and refuses to help Finette later in the story.
AMANDA: Wow.
DR. MOIYA: Which I love. So, it took some time for the Fairy godmother to get this kind of motherly, helpful personality that we see today. It took some time for the Fairy godmother to be, like, helpful instead of just mischievous. And I think it's really interesting that there are relatively few characters in folklore who just exist to help you. Like, I had a hard time finding someone to channel for this question because most helpers in mythology are also tricksters of some kind, like leprechauns, or djinn. And I think it's really nice that we now have this character who's just there to, you know, make us happy and help us have a good time.
JULIA: There's no transaction there, as opposed to something like a leprechaun or a djinn or let's say like a fairy tale character, like Rumpelstiltskin, you know?
AMANDA: Or house spirits like the Domovoi too where you help them, they help you. And if you don't clean up to their standards, you might have a problem.
JULIA: And I do think that that's a great kind of transition into providing a little bit more of advice for this person in that your friends are probably not these djinn, or these leprechauns that are asking for a transaction. They're your friends, your friendship is the thing that they get out of being friends with you, and therefore they're going to be willing to help you no matter what if you ask. I think the problem that a lot of people have, at least from, like, some people are like, "Well, you shouldn't have to ask for help from your friends." Like, I mean, yes and no. I feel like a lot of times when I know that someone is struggling or having a hard time, I asked them like, "If there's anything you need from me, just tell me I'm there to provide that for you, but I need to know what is going to be most helpful in that situation, whether it's just to listen to the problem that you're having, or whether it is I need to come over and get you food because you're just, like, have no energy to cook or if there's just, like, something that I can do to make things easier or to take that burden off you," but I am not a mind reader. I need to know what that thing is.
DR. MOIYA: Yes. I... I always want my friends to be mind readers, and I often forget that they aren't because I'm the type of person who wears my feelings on my face. So, most people can tell anyway. But yeah, it's great advice, Julia. People aren't mind readers, so you have to actually ask if you know what you want, and who can provide it.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And it can be so helpful to start small. Like, it was so challenging for me to even begin kind of challenging myself to say things like, "I'm not sure where I want to go, you pick a place," right? Or back in the day, when we went out a lot I'd be like, "I'm not really sure where I want to go," or "I don't know anywhere in that area," or, you know, "I'm afraid I don't know what the answer is." Even just saying, I'm not sure or I don't know, give someone else the space to step in and kind of take that burden from you. And for those of us who are the, you know, the hand raisers, the yes sayers, the person who's like, 'Don't worry, I put together a full dossier on the takeout options available for us at our weekend away.' 'These are all the hours with the nearby museums, and I bought us transit cards in the mail,’ you know, it can be really relieving and a pretty serious, you know, source of anxiety and sort of first step to even just say something like, 'I don't know,' or 'I'm not sure.' So maybe that is a good place to start, DJ.
JULIA: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. My advice is when you know what you want, say the thing. I think, Amanda, you bring up a great point that a lot of times when people need help, they don't know what they need help with specifically, so that is great. So, if you don't know, just say you don't know otherwise.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Again, we're not mind readers. We don't know if you actually don't know.
DR. MOIYA: Mhmm.
AMANDA: Or naming the feeling, naming the shame. It is... it is so often that the times that I really need help, but I find myself completely incapable of asking for it is when I feel like I should know something or should be able to figure it out, or I should be doing it and then all of the shoulds and the negative self-talk begins. And I see Julia and Moiya nodding sadly in... in the chat, you know, all of us have kind of understood this before. And it's when I call it kind of, like, squirreling away my shame, like a squirrel with a nut. I'll just, like, bury it deep in the ground and I'll hide all my little mistakes. And I'll pretend that I know what's going on because I'm letting my own shame get in the way of my, you know, smarter self, who would ask for help. And so, for me, the way to kind of interrupt that spiral is to say, "Hey, I'm feeling really overwhelmed by this process. Can someone help me out?" or I should be able to do this, or No, this is my responsibility. I'm having a tough time. And then letting my friends and... and colleagues who know me say, you know, offer specifically how to help or say, "What can I do?" or "What can I take off your plate?" or, you know, "Hey, I can either, you know, take this from you or this from you," or "You want to vent to me and tell me what's going on?" Giving people kind of an in and raising up a little flag to say, "This is something I'm struggling with," might also be, you know, again, DJ, a good first step. It often feels like another job if somebody, you know, Julia like your... your best intentions of saying, "How can I help?" sometimes is just like, "I don't know."
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And so, you know, it... it can be really useful to kind of give someone else that opening, that opportunity to say like, "Let me step in and suggest something."
JULIA: Yeah, of course.
DR. MOIYA: Absolutely. DJ, in case your fear of asking for help is coming from a place of perfectionism or feeling like you have a lot of "shoulds." Things you should know or be able to do, asking for help or accepting help doesn't mean you can't do the thing. It doesn't mean that you are incapable, it means that you need a little assistance in this moment. In basketball, when you pass the ball to a person before they score a couple of points it's called an assist, but the person who scored the points still gets the points. Like in the statistics for the season, even though they got a little bit of help, so you know, it doesn't say anything about your ability if you need to ask for help.
JULIA: Exactly. Oh, I love that analogy, Moiya. It's so good.
DR. MOIYA: Thank you. I've been listening to some Horse.
AMANDA: Let's help now, VL McQuad on Instagram who says, "I just got back on dating apps, and it's been almost a month and I haven't really connected with anyone. Am I being too picky or is it okay to hold out for someone that I have chemistry with? Who can help?"
JULIA: I have a story that I feel like will help.
AMANDA: Oh, yes!
JULIA: So, I once waited many years to find the woman that I was to marry. They told me that no one could see me, you see. Except for my sister and the woman that I was to marry. Women would come to visit our home and would tell my sister that they could see me but it was a lie. My sister would question them and it would become clear that they were not the one for me, but one day, after many years of waiting, a girl with rough skin and a birch bark dress came to our home and waited with my sister for me to return to the hut. And she saw me, all of me, unlike anyone else had before. And she was beautiful to me no matter her rough skin and strange clothes because she saw me for me. I had been discovered at last. I had waited for years for someone with a pure heart and a brave spirit, and we realized in that moment that we had both kept ourselves hidden, waiting for the right person to find us. And now that we had, we did not have to hide anymore. So, what I say to you is this, there is someone else out there waiting as you do, attempting to find what you search for as well. You will be discovered and discover just as I did. Trials will come, but it will lead you down the path that you search for. This, I promise. And this answer comes from the Invisible One from the story of the Invisible One and the Rough-faced Girl.
DR. MOIYA: Mmh.
JULIA: And that is from the Mi'kmaq people. So, the Mi'kmaq people are the indigenous people of what is now the Canadian Atlantic Provinces, as well as the more northeastern part of Maine. And the story really... it's funny because it has big Cinderella energy and we're just coming off the fairy godmother a little bit there. And so, this version of the story that I'm going to tell you guys about is from a website called Mi'kmaq Spirit, which is a collection of stories from a Mi'kmaq storyteller named Muin'iskw and curated by her husband Crowfeather so...
DR. MOIYA: Aw!
JULIA: It's a little long, and there is, like, a little bit of a content warning for, like, abuse, familial abuse, so just if that is something that is not cool with you, maybe fast forward about five minutes. So, the story goes that there was once a mighty hunter who was invisible and who had a sister that... who could see him and tended to his every need. And it was said that in the village that any girl who could see him might marry him. And so, nearly every girl in the village tried at some point to see him basically, but it was a long time before anyone succeeded. So, the way that it would go was a girl would come to the home of the Invisible One while he was out hunting, and the sister would wait until she saw her brother returning home and then would ask the girl visiting. "Do you see my brother?"
DR. MOIYA: That seems like questionable survey tactics.
JULIA: Well, so none of them would ever actually see them, but a lot of them would lie and say "Yes." And then the sister would be like, "So, what is his shoulder strap made of? His sled harness, what is that made of? What is his bowstring made out of?" And the girls would guess, like, obvious answers. Like rawhide or a green sapling, but then the sister would know that they were lying, and so turn them away.
AMANDA: I bet he was a really good hunter if he was invisible, right?
JULIA: Yeah, he had to be really good. Like, honestly.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And all of his clothing and also all of his, like, belongings were invisible so long as they were touching him.
DR. MOIYA: Ooh.
JULIA: Which is very interesting.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah!
DR. MOIYA: Smart.
JULIA: After the girl would be like, "Oh, I can see him and his rawhide bow." The sister would be like, "Alright." And then bring them back into the house. They would prepare a meal, he would come home and, like, there's a whole thing where he would take off his moccasins, and then you would be able to see the moccasins. You would see the bowl that he was eating out of raise and the food disappear.
AMANDA: Ooh!
JULIA: But yeah, it was just basically, like, proving that he existed to these girls and that the sister wasn't just like, "Yeah, I have a cool hot rather than no one can see."
AMANDA: Also, a great friendship ploy. Like, I... I do you have to say, I'd be down for a retelling or a new version of the story that involves some, like, friendship high jinks.
JULIA: Yes, I think that would be a lot of fun. But also, she knows all these girls are liars. So, I feel like--
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: --she wouldn't want to be friends with any of them.
AMANDA: No, that's true. That's true.
JULIA: So, in the village, it was said that there was an old woman with three daughters. The youngest of whom was, like, small and weak, and that made her kind of a target to her cruel older sisters. And it was said that they would, like, chop off her hair. Sometimes they would burn her face in hot coals in the cooking fire.
AMANDA: No! What?
JULIA: Yeah, it's... it's bad. And when the father would come home and be like, "What happened to you?" They would be like, "Oh, she fell into the fire even though you told her not to go over there." And so, like, it wasn't great. And so, because of all this, she became known as the Rough-skinned Girl among the villagers. So, one day, the two sisters of the Rough-skinned Girl decided that it was time for them to attempt to see the Invisible One, but of course, the sister of the Invisible One was able to tell right away that they couldn't see him by the usual means and the usual questions. But the sisters’ boldness made Rough-skinned Girl believe that it was finally her time to go and see him. And she was like, "You know what, I'm gonna do this, you know, I might as well take this chance everyone else has, etc., etc." But she had no beautiful clothes to impress what would be her future husband, so she went into the woods and she got herself a few sheets of birch bark and made a dress out of them.
DR. MOIYA: That's resourceful!
JULIA: Yeah. And then, she went home and she reshaped her father's old moccasins and wore them even though they were too tall for her. And then she walked through the village to the Invisible One's home. And like, on the way, the villagers were laughing and mocking her strange clothes, but she continued on undeterred. So, the sister of the Invisible One did not laugh at her clothes when she finally showed up on her doorstep, but she welcomed her into their home instead. So, they prepared a meal and as the sun began to set, she led the Rough-skinned Girl out to the lake and said, "My brother comes. Do you see him?" And at first, the Rough-skinned Girl was, like, not sure because it's very far away. And then all of a sudden, she sees someone emerging out of the forest. And the sister asks her, "What is his shoulder strap made of?" To which the Rough-skinned girl replied, "A rainbow."
AMANDA: Aw!
DR. MOIYA: Aw!
JULIA: And she asked what his bowstring was made out of to which he replied, "The Milky Way."
DR. MOIYA: Love it!
JULIA: And so, the sister was surprised but happy and so she escorted her back into the Invisible One's home. There she, like, took off her... kind of weird clothes, washed her skin with this special water so it smoothed away all of her scars, combed her cropped hair with a comb that grew all of her hair back and it was black and gleaming and she just treated her with kindness that the story says that the girl hadn't felt since her mother had passed away, so it was, like, a really, like, she'd found her new family so to speak.
AMANDA: Aw!
JULIA: And so, then the sister opened this chest up and she dressed the Rough-skinned Girl in a beautiful wedding outfit just as the Invisible One came home. And as he entered, his sister turned to him and said, "Greetings, my brother! You are discovered at last."
AMANDA: Aw!
JULIA: And so, the Invisible One took the Rough-skinned Girl's hands and told her, "For years I have waited to find a woman of a pure heart and a brave spirit. Only such a one could see me. And now that I have found you, you shall be my bride," and the two were married and the Rough-skinned Girl was known from then on as the Lovely One instead.
DR. MOIYA: Aw!
AMANDA: Aw! We love an end of story rebrand.
DR. MOIYA: Mhmm.
JULIA: So good. I love it very much.
DR. MOIYA: I'd never heard the story before. I really like it.
JULIA: I love this one as well. It's got a really beautiful story. I love the twist at the end that of course these girls were like, "Oh, yeah, it's... his bow? It's made out of normal bow things." And she's like, "No, it's the Milky Way." It's beautiful.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
AMANDA: So, Julia, what... what about the story reached out to you when you were consulting the gods for advice?
JULIA: So, I thought about it and I really thought, like, this story kind of talks about the perseverance of trying to find the right person for you. And I thought that was a good answer. I know online dating is not quite the same as finding the Invisible One and finally being able to see him, but it does kind of speak to this idea that, like, there are many fish in the sea, but of course, you have to kind of keep searching until you find the right person. And this idea that I'm sure the Invisible One wanted to find the person who could see him just as much as all of the women in the village wanted to find that they were the one that could see him as well. So, I thought that this was a good story about the perseverance of finding the right person for you.
AMANDA: And it's not objectively the best person, right? She wasn't the richest, she wasn't the, you know, most traditionally beautiful, she wasn't the best attired. It's two people who understand each other, whose hurts speak to each other and who have, like, the... the kind of like patience and... and kindness to get to know each other and who are just, you know, that... that amount of, like, mystical or fate-oriented compatibility. That's the... the hard thing that, you know, no app can quantify as much as they try.
JULIA: Yeah. That is true.
DR. MOIYA: I feel like this story, and so many other stories about love in popular culture and mythology make it seem like there's only one possible person who would be the right for you, but we know in the real world and based on science, that that's not true. It... there are so many different people that you will have the right chemistry with. And so, you don't have to get it into your mind that you're holding out for this special one person because that, like, the statistics of that are very difficult. There are almost a billion people in the world. If there was just one for you then no one would ever fall in love, but we do, so there's more than just one.
JULIA: And I mean, at the end of the story, it does say, "I have been waiting to find a woman, a woman with of pure heart and brave spirit." It didn't have to specifically be Rough-skinned Girl, but the fact that she was able to, like, stand up to the people who were laughing at her to finally make her way over there and to, like, be the person that she was.
DR. MOIYA: Mhmm.
JULIA: That was the reason that they got together. I'm sure if he lived in a different village, he still would have found someone who fulfilled those requirements for lack of a better word, I don't want to make it seem like you should be checking off boxes, but like, if you have chemistry.
AMANDA: Or who was compatible enough.
JULIA: Yeah!
AMANDA: Like, it... it's about enough. And then, you know, once you have that initial compatibility, are you at a good point in your lives and journeys? And is this, you know, are you looking for the thing that the other provides? Are you committing to each other? How do you start kind of building a life? I think my kind of final observation here is, as always, the answer is in the question and VL's question is, "Am I being too picky or is it okay to hold out?" And VL, if society does not give you that permission, we sure will. It's okay to hold out, we promise.
DR. MOIYA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. And if you're looking for something serious in particular, holding out to find someone that you have chemistry with is a totally acceptable thing to do. If you're looking to just, like, find companionship even if you don't think that this person is, like, the exact person that you're looking for, that is also okay. You're not hurting anyone by being like, "I want to spend time with someone, even if I don't think you are my entire future," you know?
AMANDA: Yeah,
DR. MOIYA: As long as you're honest. Yeah.
AMANDA: Exactly. Be honest with yourself. Be honest with your partners and, you know, life's a rich tapestry and we should all be so lucky to have interesting relationships with people we want to spend time with, but if you don't want to spend time together; pretty good sign that it's okay to move on.
JULIA: Exactly.
DR. MOIYA: Mhmm.
AMANDA: This is from an anonymous asker who says, "With the holidays coming up, how do I deal with that nosy, overly critical relative?" Oof. We've all been here, as I'm sure have many figures in mythology and folklore. Who's... who's got some advice for us?
DR. MOIYA: I have some advice. My students asked me many questions on their journey to the path of enlightenment. I was glad to answer most of them, to liberate the askers from their suffering, but I refused to answer 14, because they were unknowable or unconstructive. Similarly, you may refuse to respond to your relatives’ questions if you find them unconstructive or if you don't know the answer, and remember that they're asking a spiteful or insincere question says far more about their character and karma than it does yours. Happily yours, The Buddha. Gautama Buddha was born to an aristocratic family in India in the 5th or 6th Century BCE. After years of meditation and reflection, Buddha reached enlightenment and then traveled through India teaching other people the way to end their reincarnation cycle and reach Nirvana. When he was teaching his students the 62 false convictions of other religions, they asked him questions, which makes sense, I would have a lot of questions about that too, and he refused to answer 14. And those 14 were: Is the world eternal, or not, or both, or neither? So, there are four questions in that one. Is the world finite or not, or both, or neither? Is the Self identical to the body, or is it different from the body? And I... I think those are the ones I'm most interested in. And does Buddha continue to exist after death, or not, or both, or neither? And I think that the message here that I got from channeling the Buddha was you can remain silent. You can just refuse to answer these questions. You can be evasive. You can obfuscate, but really, it's a matter of remembering that you don't owe anyone else these answers if that's not going to be helpful for anyone in the situation, especially if it's not helpful for you. And some advice from regular old Moiya is I would like to maybe introduce you to fairy speak?
AMANDA: Ooh!
DR. MOIYA: Julia, Amanda, have you used fairy speak in your lives?
JULIA: I know what you're talking about.
AMANDA: I don't!
JULIA: I feel like I use it. I don't ever refer to it as that but I know exactly what you mean.
AMANDA: Please tell me what it is.
DR. MOIYA: Yes, in a lot of fairy canon, fairies can't lie. They can only tell the truth, but they often will speak in deceptive language so that what they say is technically true, but the other person might interpret it incorrectly. While I was researching for this episode, I did find a really fascinating article that traces the history of that whole fairies can't lie rule, we can get into that in a future episode maybe.
JULIA: Yes, please.
DR. MOIYA: But you know, some examples of fairy speak might be when my mom asked me as a teenager if I had had sex, I said I'm a virgin by which I meant virgin in, like, the 18th century English definition of I was an unmarried woman.
JULIA: I'm an unmarried woman.
AMANDA: There you go, Moiya. You're not lying, you're just a fairy queen.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. So, you know, things like that you can choose the best way for you to answer or not these relative's questions because it is none of their damn business what you do with your life, unless you want to make it their business,
JULIA: I am of an age and as many years into marriage, where people are starting to ask me when I'm planning on having children. And my answer to that question, almost always is "We're not really thinking about that right now."
AMANDA: There you go.
DR. MOIYA: Nice.
JULIA: That's not a, like, we're not gonna have kids in the future, that's not a we're trying and you're being rude for asking, which don't ever ask someone--
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: --if they're planning on--
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: --having kids or, like, trying to have kids because it's rude as hell,
AMANDA: God, what a loaded fraught, invasive question. My God! When they present you with their baby, you can say, "So happy for you."
DR. MOIYA: Right?
JULIA: Like Moiya said, totally okay to give a non-answer, and then move the conversation elsewhere.
DR. MOIYA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And if they persist in that, be like, "I don't really want to talk about that. How are you doing? What's up with your life?" Just, like, redirect to someone else, or, like, move the conversation to a different person. If you're, like, one on one and trying to be like, "Oh, hey, cousin, Jeremy, I heard that you are majoring in this. How's that going? That kind of thing.
AMANDA: That's so, so useful, both of you. And I think particularly for those of us assigned female at birth, growing up, we are often taught that it's our obligation to make others feel comfortable and to treat their questions and their desires as the most important thing in the room. Certainly not exclusive but something that I definitely have been reckoning with as I grow up. It is also okay to set boundaries and necessary and loving, you're giving others instructions on how they can best relate to you. And maybe your standards of what isn't is an appropriate conversation or okay to ask somebody are different and ultimately, it's a loving act to tell somebody else how they can best talk to you. So, using words and sentences even if you have to text this to yourself or ask a trusted friend to just, like, text you one of these phrases every 30 minutes or every hour or once a day when you're visiting home or visiting a relative. Phrases like, Julia, like you mentioned, you know. "Don't really want to talk about that. Not really thinking about that. Let's focus on you. I'm so bored or talking about myself/jobs/relationships/school. Like, let's move on to something more exciting" or even something as pointed as "I'm not comfortable answering that," or "That's a weird question to ask somebody," or "It surprises me to hear you say that, I'm not really sure how to respond." Without saying to somebody, "Wow, you're a big jerk," you can say, "Huh?" and kind of leave it there.
JULIA: I love that last one. I gotta start using that all the time. Wow. I'm surprised you said that.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: I don't really have a response.
DR. MOIYA: That's a great one.
JULIA: Also, one of my favorite things too, just as an aside, is to ask people to explain things when they--
AMANDA: Oh yes!
JULIA: --sound like assholes, be like, "Oh, I don't really get what you're saying. Can you explain to me why you would ask that question or why you think that?"
AMANDA: Are you going to explain the bigotry behind your joke or are you going to assume that I'm going to agree with you? Because if so--
DR. MOIYA: Right.
AMANDA: --leave that person with a conversational burden of bringing you on side instead of assuming that you already are.
DR. MOIYA: Yes, absolutely. I looked up some, like, professional psychologist advice to this question in prepping for this episode. Most of the people I looked into said that it's good to have practiced responses. So, that list of responses that Amanda just gave, like, actually practice that. Like, say it out loud in front of a mirror or something so that you're ready when your relative asks you these invasive questions.
AMANDA: Yeah, and... and even a very well-meaning version of this can really stack up, like, you know, I got engaged a couple months ago, and four weeks afterward, everybody's saying, "When's the wedding? Are you going to convert? Are you going to have kids? Are you changing your name?" And my answer is always like, "Just enjoying being engaged right now. Just focusing on being happy." I came up with a couple of these in advance that Eric and I practice with each other so that we could then, you know, let them roll off the tongue. And know that even though for my experience is dozens of people I've never talked to before asking me questions like this, each individual person is just, like, so fucking stoked for me. And so, it's easier to kind of let the sort of generosity play out when it's a bit routine. Also, reminder, you can move your damn self out of that room and you can go to the kitchen, you can take out the garbage, you can refresh their drink, you can really just take a bunch of pages from, like, Victorian etiquette playbooks and be like, "Let me get you some water. Oh, what was that? Gotta go. Oh, I think I smell something burning. Oh, do we need ice? You always need ice. Just go drive out and get ice."
JULIA: I have to go to the bathroom.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Go to the bathroom and text your friends, tweet to Spirits. We'll respond to you. You can take a little break anytime you need it.
JULIA: Mhmm. 100%.
AMANDA: Well, speaking of breaks, I am thinking that it would be a great idea for all of us to go grab a refill. How do you feel about that?
JULIA: Sounds good.
DR. MOIYA: Feel great.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: Because it is the week of Thanksgiving here in the United States, the stores are packed in case you don't know. And the idea of having to run out for groceries more than once when I know how long I waited in line the first time just to pick up something that I forgot is an extremely, extremely daunting thing. But thankfully, not only can I order my dinner from DoorDash, I can also order snacks, drinks, and household essentials in 30 minutes with DoorDash. So, if I have my dinner already, but did I forget to pick up milk because I need that for the morning after Thanksgiving to have breakfast? Yes, I can just call DoorDash and they will deliver it to me in a safe contactless free way. They connect you with restaurants that you love. And like I said, you get those grocery essentials as well. And ordering is super easy, just open up that DoorDash app. You choose what you want from where you want it and your items are left safely outside your door with that contactless delivery drop off setting. And for a limited time, our listeners can get 25% off and zero delivery fees on their first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter the code: creepycool. That's 25% off up to a $10 value and zero delivery fees on your first order when you download the DoorDash app in the App Store and enter the code: creepycool. Don't forget that's code: creepycool, all one word for 25% off your first order with DoorDash, subject to change terms apply. I know that around the holidays my anxiety tends to flare up a bit and I just want to know that when I go out I am feeling safe and comfortable and that's why I keep my Birdie attached to my keys, because Birdie is a personal safety alarm designed to be easy to carry and simple to use. You can activate it with a quick pull, an alarm emits, a really loud siren and a flashing strobe light. And unlike other deterrents like pepper spray, Birdie is no danger to you, so you can feel confident to use it without having to worry. And it goes wherever you go. It's an alarm that comes in, like, multiple colors. It has this brass keychain that I can attach to my keys or in my bag and with over 300,000 Birdie alarms that have been sold, they have thousands of five star reviews. So, you can join the flock today for a safer tomorrow. And right now... and right now She's Birdie is offering our listeners 15% off your first purchase when you go to shesbirdie.com/spirits Go to She's Birdie spelled s h e s b i r d i e.com/spirits for 15% off your first purchase. That's shesbirdie.com/spirits. And finally, this time of year I just want to curl up in my bed all the time, so the idea of having to get out of my warm comfortable bed out into the cold of the real world can make things really difficult. And it's even more difficult because I have these incredible, comfortable Brooklinen sheets, and not only are Brooklinen sheets so, so comfortable. They're also on sale right now. So, Brooklinen's entire site of super soft, seriously cozy essentials is on sale right now. They were created to bring a dreamy comfort to every corner of your space at a price is so affordable that they will make you literally, like, pinch yourself you must be dreaming because you're so comfortable in your bed. And shopping is super easy with the Brooklinen bundles. You can save more when you stock up on essentials for your space and now is the time to get gifting with deals on items for everyone on your list. Maybe you're shopping for candles, so scented candles are a thing or you can grab a gift card which is... lets people pick whatever they want. So, this kind of comfort is always a hit during the holidays and their comfort game is unmatched. Their lineup keeps getting better. They have not only 5-star sheets, but they have a collection of cozy must haves, that includes everything from dreamy decor to their newly launched socks, which I will tell you; extremely comfortable, so don't miss out. Brooklinen's biggest sale of the year is here, and if you're listening to this after the sale, you can still save. You can visit brooklinen.com and use the promo code: spirits for $20 off with a minimum purchase of $100. That's b r o o k l i n e n.com, promo code: spirits. And now, let's get back to the show. All right, Moiya, this is the part of the podcast where we ask you what you've been drinking lately.
DR. MOIYA: Yes. I have been returning to one of my favorite Fall drinks. It is a hot apple cider with some fireball whiskey.
AMANDA: Yay!
JULIA: Oh, girl. Yeah!
AMANDA: It doesn't get better than that.
DR. MOIYA: It's so delicious. It tastes like candy but it's also a little bit turnt, so I love it.
AMANDA: We've also been mulling cider though I had a bottle of brandy to use up and I have to say, like, the Victorians knew what they were talking about. They were just constantly drinking brandy for stress of all kinds, and I... I highly recommend it. It's a really nice compliment.
JULIA: I think this is going to be the season where I get into mulled wine.
AMANDA: Oh yeah.
JULIA: I think this is going to be this year.
AMANDA: Oh yeah.
JULIA: I'm like, hot wine and spices in the wine? Okay, all right.
AMANDA: It's good [28:21].
JULIA: If I can get, like, just a cheap bottle of red wine and mull that, it sounds great.
AMANDA: Delish.
DR. MOIYA: Do you have your mulling spices already?
JULIA: No, I gotta go buy mulling spices that is a great thing. There is a great spice shop that opened up by where my parents live, so I'm probably going to go there and see if they have mulling spices.
DR. MOIYA: Nice.
AMANDA: Also, a really nice gift for people, if you're... if you're trying to make more... more sustainable or... or less expensive gifts, a very good idea to go to a local supermarket. Get some, you know, some star anise, some clove maybe or some cardamom pods or maybe even, like, dry some peels from oranges and lemons. Dry them in the oven and then you can make little baggies of... of mulling spice for people. A really cute gift.
JULIA: Also, making your own alcohol is a lot of fun. So, for our wedding, we did Lemon Cello as our favors and I still give it, like, as gifts. Like, Amanda got it as her engagement present.
AMANDA: Fuck yeah, I did, dude.
JULIA: It's the last bottle from our wedding, which I felt like was very, I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for?
AMANDA: Meaningful. Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah, it was meaningful.
AMANDA: Just symbolic.
JULIA: But we just came back from a wedding where they did Apple Cider Moonshine as their favor and oh my god, I need that recipe so I can make it for myself. It's so good.
DR. MOIYA: And us too. I would like some of that.
JULIA: Yes, yes. Yes, everyone gets one. If I make it, everyone gets some.
DR. MOIYA: Yay!
AMANDA: Well, with our mugs in hand, let's turn to Lisa who wrote in via email. Thank you, Lisa. Their question is, "I want to spend more time on writing but find myself lacking the energy after long days at work. Do you have any tips on how to be more creative in daily life? My biggest dream is to be able to make a living as a writer but I don't see that happening with my current situation. I'm even considering going back to school to get an English degree, but that means going back to low income and, of course, more debt. However, I think this will give me more spare time and valuable knowledge and skills. Any tips?"
JULIA: Dear Lisa, my job is an important one. I chronicle every birth among my people and every death that occurs. And of course, that does take up quite a bit of time. And when I'm not doing that, when I have time between births and deaths, and the lives of those who worship, I spend time in their dreams. Each night, I visit the writers and the poets and the musicians and the sculptors and I send them visions of the art that they will be able to create. I'm sure that I've come and visited your dreams as well. Sometimes between the births and the deaths, I can only bless a writer or poet, and many are left waiting for my gifts. But as much as my position takes up so very much of my time, I managed to send a blessing here and there, and that is what I bless you with. The ability to jot down an idea as it comes to you, to take a moment of your free time to chip away at your passion projects, to widdle your ideas into art one moment at a time. And when that moment is right, when the inspiration is there, when the time is there, a pause in the world, your art will emerge. Life and death have no timeline and you should not feel like you need that time either. Steal life for your work when you can find it and I promise I will be there in the moments you do. Yours in the moments between, Tir, the Armenian god of written language and schooling. Tir was the god of written language and arts in Armenia and was also the messenger god for the chief Armenian God, which was Aramazd. But he played a similar role to Hermes does in Greek mythology, in that he was like a psycho pump, so he would lead souls to the underworld after they passed away, and he also recorded all of the actions of every person to judge them upon their death. He was also said to be a fortune teller and a dream interpreter and was also said sometimes to be able to enter dreams. So, it was said that he would spend one month out of every year also documenting all of the births and deaths of people. And that for the other 11 months of the year, he would spend time giving inspiration to artists. So, because he spends all his time with his work, aka kind of recording actions of people and these births and these deaths, but he still had time for the arts, I felt like he was the perfect god to talk to about this problem.
AMANDA: That's a pretty great ratio. I'm into it.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. 11 to 1? Sounds good.
JULIA: Not bad. I mean, he's still jotting down everyone's, like, actions and stuff like that during the day. But yeah, one month to just write down all the deaths and all the births is pretty, pretty solid.
AMANDA: Oh guys, so much to say about this answer. I feel like my first thought was about Moiya. Balancing school and creative endeavors. Are you tired of answering this question?
DR. MOIYA: I'm not tired of answering it, but I always am afraid that my answer isn't, like, satisfying to other people, or that it's not helpful to other people.
AMANDA: Yeah. Well, what worked for you or didn't work for you?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. I would love to tell you that I had a routine that, you know, when I knew I needed to get into a creative mindset, I... I had this ritual that I followed, but I really didn't. It was mostly survival and like a... like an adrenaline rush that I got when I knew I just needed to get something done against a deadline, but I think that that's useful too. Like, figuring out what motivates you in your creative zone, like what gets you into that creative flow, I think is really useful. Apparently, for me, a super effective way is just to... to procrastinate, but you know, some people find it really helpful to do morning pages to, like, write every day. Some people find it helpful to journal or to, you know, like, light a specific candle when they're getting ready to write or something. There are so many different ways to get into a creative flow and I think you just have to find what works for you. Lisa, I will say that I personally don't feel like you have to get an English degree to be a writer. I think you're right; it will give you a lot more debt and you won't be making a lot of money during that. I think if you wanted to, like, you know, in a drastic situation, like, go halftime at your job so that you can spend more time focused on writing. You would still have lower income, but then not have to pay tuition to something. Yeah, if you really want to get an English degree do that, but I don't think you need to.
JULIA: That's fair.
AMANDA: I totally agree. I think so often the process of enrolling in something or going to a school or signing up for a class or paying for a consulting hour or a new notebook, right? Like, these are all kind of similar gestures that kind of trick us into taking our own ambition seriously by putting money down first.
DR. MOIYA: Hmm.
AMANDA: That's a hack, right? Like, hacks... hacks are valid, and I have definitely, like, bought a new notebook in order to commit to doing a project because I know that I am more motivated to Moiya's point by the guilt of having spent money that I am, just the desire, or like listening to my own desires to do something. But I think that's quite a different scale, you know, in 10s of 1000s of dollars of tuition versus, you know, $15 on a notebook. So, you know, Lisa only you know your particular situation and what is best for you, but if what you're looking for is kind of like a reason to take your desire seriously or an excuse to in the best possible way, like an opportunity or reason to carve out time in your schedule, I get it. But, you know, maybe ask yourself before committing to that, "Are there ways that you can make that time for yourself? Is it time that you arrive to work an hour early and write in the car? Is it time where you treat Saturday like a workday and it's working for yourself? Is it spending your lunch breaks doing it or saving up, you know, a couple bucks each week to pay yourself as if you, you know, work the day of work, and instead, you know, spend time on a creative project once every few months?"
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Another thing that I found helpful was combining my work and my creativity. So, for the last, like, 18 months of my PhD, I was doing research on the Milky Way while also writing a book written from the Milky Way's perspective. And it was really helpful that they aligned so well. I didn't feel like my brain had to switch as far between doing my work and my creative stuff. So, if there's something creative you can do with the job work that you do, then that might make it easier to transition into more writing.
JULIA: Yeah, I think that's all great advice, honestly. Like, if you don't feel like you're able to carve out the time that you currently have, this is all great options otherwise. Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah. I... I think just Lisa, my final thought is, like, you know, whenever we see people kind of commit to a creative career or when we hear people's origin stories, it's pretty boring and kind of goes against, like, the idea of a sort of origin myth or an artists' lifestyle to be like, "Yeah, I didn't like sleep enough for two years. And, you know, did podcasting at night alongside my day job and, like, the better the podcast went, the more I hated my job. And I just had to stick it out until I paid my loans back and, like, it sucked, and then I was able to do it. And still, I didn't make enough money for several years, until it all kind of caught up." Like, that... that sort of nuance is boring, difficult privates it has to do with finances. So, it's so easy to compare ourselves to, like, the tweet where somebody says, like, "Finally did it guys! I quit my day job to be a writer full time," and, like, those moments are amazing, and they are so worth celebrating but they are only kind of... they're like the culmination of a very, very long journey that is not anywhere near as fun to document.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: I don't mean to be depressing, but maybe it will help you to know that the process of you becoming a writer might involve several years of kind of mixing streams of income of you writing things that you feel excited about and making money another way. And then eventually, maybe they crossover. Maybe one, you know, your first goal is to meet your day job income with your writing income, and then you can see if they cross and surpass enough to quit one for the other. And that also... that's also being a writer, whether you do it for money or not, for yourself or not, for publication or not. You can balance being a writer with needing to make it in... in this world in whatever way you need to and you still count.
JULIA: Absolutely.
DR. MOIYA: Mhmm.
AMANDA: Next, we have something that's been on all of our minds, this is from Spirulina on Instagram, great username. "How people always thought it was the end times? Should I be worried?"
DR. MOIYA: I have an answer for you. Sweet spirulina. Since my grandfather, who is also the all-father cast me into the Seas of Midgard, I have waited for the end of the world. I've dreamt countless dreams of my glorious return to the surface and have even come close a time or two to peeking out from the water but close doesn't cut it when it comes to the apocalypse. The world either ends or it doesn't. And this world will only end when I decide to let go of my tail and wriggle out from these murky depths. But humanity's stories and warnings of often impending Armageddon have reached me even down here. Every culture has one because Midgard is a harsh world. Without the gift of longevity and perspective, it always seems like the end is near, but that's just the nature of your world trapped in the chaos between Niflheim's ice and Muspelheim's fire. It may always be in flux, but I don't plan to relax my jaw anytime soon. Swimmingly, Jörmungandr. Jörmungandr is the Midgard serpent from Norse mythology. He's the son of Loki and the giantess, Angrboda. Odin threw him into the ocean of Midgard because of a prophecy that he and his siblings would eventually cause trouble for the Aesir. And it's true because he is the Harbinger of Ragnarok. You know, when Jӧrmungandr lets go of his tail, he will bring about the end of the world. So, when he was thrown into the ocean, Jӧrmungandr grew so big that he encompassed the entire world and held his tail in his own mouth. Thor is his sworn enemy and once even tried to fish Jӧrmungandr out of the bottom of the ocean to try and fight him and bring on the end of the world, I guess. But the giant, Hymir, cuts the fishing line that Thor was using because he didn't want to bring about Ragnarok which I think is wise.
JULIA: Valid.
DR. MOIYA: But Spirulina, to your question: Yes, literally all humans throughout time have thought that it was the end times. I wrote about this in my Milky Way book. And you know, 5000 years ago, ancient Assyrians were lamenting the moral decay of their society and saying that that was going to bring about the end of the world. Scientists have tried to predict the end of the world so many times, and it has never happened. In cultures from around the world, you can see predictions about how the world will end. So yes, we have always thought about this. No, you should not be worried, because now is not any worse than it has ever been.
AMANDA: Absolutely.
JULIA: Yeah, I know that there's a lot of concern about just, you know, the environment and global climate change and stuff like that. And it can be overwhelming because we are, like, constantly bombarded with those ideas and those facts more so than any of our, you know, ancestors. So yeah, it can be extremely overwhelming, but we're here to tell you that everyone has always thought it was going to be the end of the world. Every generation has been like, "Yep, this is it. This is the end."
AMANDA: Yeah. Humanity is defined in my mind by the knowledge that we're gonna die unlike most other organisms on the planet. And that is our curse, that is our blessing, that is the... the thing that we struggle with. That is ultimately what's at the bottom of myths and legends and the stories that we tell ourselves in order to survive, and to learn, and to feel a little bit of hope and a little bit of sorrow and look at our mortality in the face and give it a name and have stories about humans vanquishing it from time to time. And that's how it is and you are not alone in feeling overwhelmed, but you're also not alone in kind of living with it and coexisting with that knowledge. So, for myself, I make some... I sign petitions, and I make donations and I do a little bit of action when I feel climate dread overwhelm me. And even googling that phrase might bring you some kind of useful tips and ways to feel as if you are putting some energy not just into, you know, your own little inner void of knowledge but out perhaps into the world and maybe making things a little bit better.
JULIA: Absolutely!
AMANDA: And finally, here is a question from Sunflower Kitchen Witch on Instagram.
JULIA: Great name.
DR. MOIYA: Another great name.
AMANDA: I have trouble getting my high school students to take me seriously and it's hurting my self-esteem. Oh.
JULIA: Listen, my dear Sunflower Kitchen Witch, I feel your pain. Guiding children through some of the most difficult times in their lives is a challenge that few can understand. They are full of angst, full of anger, testing the limits of what they can and cannot do and you are forced to stand in front of them trying to... trying your best to look strong and wise. I have learned many things as I taught the youths in my care and trust me these were no mere teenagers. I had my hands full of demigods and future heroes, Ajax and Achilles were constantly getting into fights. Jason would constantly go missing for hours, sometimes days only showing up with half of his clothes. And Asclepius was always mucking around in my healing herbs, but I know all too well what it is like to be disrespected. My people, the centaurs, were not beloved certainly, so making an effort to always prove that I was more, that I was better was hard on me as a youth. There's no easy way to demand respect other than having confidence. And confidence unfortunately, is an easy thing to lose, especially as you stare at the future of the faces of these children and remember that you're not too far removed from where they once were. I prescribe confidence and empathy and think of what you looked for when you were just a colt. There will always be young ones who will test your patience or your nerve, but stand with your chin held high and let them know you are not to be trampled before their youth and nerve. Yours in the education of youth, Chiron.
AMANDA: Chiron!
JULIA: Chiron, as we probably remember was the Centaur who was tasked with teaching many of the demigods and heroes in their youth. He was adopted by the god Apollo, who taught him such things as, like, medicine, music, archery, hunting, and gymnastics. And then he taught a lot of those to his students. Chiron was also unique among centaurs, who were, like, usually, like, bloodthirsty. And according to the Greeks were considered "Wild," where Chiron was, "Civilized," which is not great, I feel.
DR. MOIYA: No.
JULIA: But that's besides the point. But Chiron was the teacher of men like Ajax, and Perseus, and Jason, and Achilles, and Theseus. And in some stories, Heracles and many of his students actually ended up becoming Argonauts. They traveled with Jason on his quest for the Golden Fleece, so he was all about having to deal with rambunctious young heroes and demigods who probably didn't make him feel great all the time.
AMANDA: I'll say.
DR. MOIYA: Mhmm.
JULIA: So, I think that Chiron is advice being like, you have to go in there with confidence. Forgive me for this kind of joke, but it's like a horse. You have to approach them and tell... like show them you're not afraid.
AMANDA: Julia, you're on notice. You're on warning.
JULIA: I'm so sorry.
AMANDA: And I love it! I love it!
JULIA: So yeah, you just have to go in there and be like, listen, those kids can smell fear and the minute that they know that, like, they're really impacting you is going to be the minute that they start throwing the classroom into chaos. So, that is the biggest thing, you have to go in with confidence and also knowing that the these are children and they're going through a rough time and they're full of hormones.
DR. MOIYA: So many hormones.
AMANDA: I can't imagine how many feelings it brings up to teach kids, having once been a kid that was that age in the way that I hear from parents about, you know, kind of re-feeling all the feelings and coming to terms with your own parenting as you become a parent. I hope and expect that you have Sunflower Kitchen Witch, my friend, a support system that can take care of the kid you were and help you care for that inner child, whether that is traditional therapy, whether it's venting to your group text, whether it's you know, other educator, friends who you can be like, "Hey, the fuck," and they're like, "I know, here we all are." But I hope you're not carrying around the guilt of feeling like you should be able to deal with this or that it shouldn't be an issue or thing that you're... you're facing, because hey, it's gonna take a lot of resources to... to just, like, do the thing you're doing. Don't make it harder on yourself. It's easier said than done, but I... I hope that that is at least somewhat validating. And you can make a little playbook for yourself, a phone note, flashcards, you know, the front page of your notebook of things to do when stuff kids say lands in my heart like a little piece of shrapnel.
JULIA: Oh, no.
AMANDA: What are your self-care activities? Who are your support groups? What are the kind of mindfulness exercises or other kind of grounding things that you can do? A mantra, which was, "It'll get harder for them," or "I was a kid once, I made it through" or "It's not about me, it's about their pain," you know, best what will fit for you, but I... I hope that you treat this like the, I won't say emergency but like the serious thing that it is. Just like you have to, you know, get to know a... a pet and figure out how you can deal with it when they are afraid of fireworks or the lawn mower or the mail carrier. This is tending to your inner kid. And I hope you do that with all the tenderness you display to these high school students that are trying to... to show dominance to you.
DR. MOIYA: Last one to everything Amanda just said, and also, they're high school students Sunflower Kitchen Witch. They don't take anything seriously.
JULIA: They don't.
DR. MOIYA: I remember when I was a high schooler there was basically nothing any of my teachers could have done to make me respect them more. So, try not to take it personally. Their behavior doesn't say anything about your worth as a... as a teacher, really.
JULIA: It's true.
DR. MOIYA: It's hormones,
JULIA: It's so many hormones.
AMANDA: I know there are gonna be so many teachers out there who are listening to this and nodding vociferously, and... and therapists and other people who... who help youth and just like, "Yep, nope. They... they don't know that they need it, and they do." And that's why they're kids and we're adults. My heart and thanks go out to all of you. I wish I was able to deflect some of that or be a shield in front of you or, you know, brain blast those kids and be like, "Hey, you must be going through something, huh? Is that why you're acting out, huh?" But we can't, we just have to, you know, take the pain in from them and then find places that you can pour it back out and get validation from others.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And it'll get easier with age, I feel like.
DR. MOIYA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: If you're a young teacher, like, the kids don't kind of vibe with you because they're like, "You're only five years older than us, man. Come on." You know, with both experience and age, you'll be able to kind of be like, "I know what I'm talking about, and you'll listen to me goddammit."
AMANDA: We believe in you. Well, Moiya, Julia, thank you so much for the care and attention and supernatural frankly channeling that you've done today. Bringing the best advice from folklore that we can possibly give to the conspirators
JULIA: It's our pleasure as always.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, my honor to be a conduit for the gods.
AMANDA: For more Moiya, make sure you look for Exolore in your podcast app and subscribe and listen to the show. Follow her on Twitter, her info is going to be in the description of this episode. And as always, we'll see you next week with some more Spirits.
JULIA: And we'll always remember because the gods tell us to do so. Stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool. Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a forum to send us in your urban legends, and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more like recipe cards with alcoholic and non-alcoholic for every single episode, director's commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye.
Transcribed by: John Matthew Sarong