Episode 423: Food Supertitions
/Have you ever spilled some salt and tossed it over your shoulder? Broken a wishbone with friends and family? Have you ever wondered WHY we blow out candles on birthday cakes? We dig into some of our favorite and curious food superstitions from around the world!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of enslavement, racism, pregnancy and birth, animal death, colonization, poisoning, sex, and death.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends this mutual aid list of displaced Black families and this comprehensive list of resources for folks impacted by the L.A. fires. If that’s you, we’re thinking about you.
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, this year for the holidays, Jake got me a sort of themed gift, like his gifts were themed for a specific thing. It's something he really likes doing. He really loves, like, picking a thing that I showed interest in, in the previous year and then, like, spoiling me with it.
AMANDA: Oh. Adorable.
JULIA: It is— it's cute. It's very cute. He loves doing that. He's a very thoughtful gift giver, so I'm a big fan of that.
AMANDA: Okay. Well, apart from bragging about your sweet husband, Julia, what relevance does this have to Spirits
JULIA: I promise it's relevant. I promise, Legally Blonde joke here. So this year, he got me some really nice cookware, like a really fancy pan that you can't destroy no matter what you do to it. And he got me a really nice knife, and I remembered, as he was gifting it to me, there is this kitchen superstition that I read a few years back about how— when you're gifting someone a knife, it's actually bad luck to gift a knife, because it will, quote-unquote, sever your relationship.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: But you can avoid severing the relationship by exchanging a coin or a small denomination of money for the gift that you're receiving.
AMANDA: So did you do that?
JULIA: So I did do that. I insisted on it. I got a $1 from my wallet. I was like, "Here, please take this." He's like, "No, it's a gift." I'm like, "No, it can't be a gift. You don't understand." And he— eventually, when I explained it to him, he's like, "Okay. Sure. Fine." It's a really nice knife, by the way. Again, bragging a little bit, but it's a really nice knife.
AMANDA: Wonderful.
JULIA: But it got me thinking, Amanda, about some of the other interesting and weird food and kitchen superstitions that exist out there in the world, and had me wondering where exactly they come from. So in this episode, we're going to be exploring some of the most common food superstitions. It's a food superstition roundup, baby.
AMANDA: Love it.
JULIA: So I have a bunch here. I know that there's going to be more superstitions out there than what we are going to cover in this episode. So if at any point, you are listening to this and being like, "Oh, my God, I can't believe they haven't talked about this." Send us an email, spiritspodcast.com/contact or spiritspodcast@gmail.com. You can send us an email being like, "Hey, this is a cool food superstition that I have or I grew up with."
AMANDA: And if we get enough of them, we can do a little roundup and a little update. I absolutely love follow-up emails and follow-up episodes, so absolutely send it in.
JULIA: Big same, so I'm very excited. But let's start, Amanda, with some new year's superstitions, because obviously, we just celebrated the New Year's. And I know a lot of different cultures and areas have different food traditions about what to eat in order to bring good luck in the new year. Now, the first one that I want to mention is a American one, but not one that we specifically grew up with, because it's primarily from the American South, and that is the tradition of eating black-eyed peas either just after midnight or on New Year's Day. Have you heard of this one before?
AMANDA: I heard of this as a black American tradition, so I'm curious about the origins of it.
JULIA: Well, Amanda, that is correct. Basically, the tradition is if black-eyed peas are the first food you eat on New Year's Day, it is supposed to bring you luck and prosperity through the upcoming year. And as you pointed out now, in terms of the origin of it, it is tied, much like most of American history is tied, to the slave trade. Now, black-eyed peas, which are West African in origin, like that is where they traditionally grow, were brought to the Americas by enslaved Africans. And it was one of the crops that enslaved people cultivated in their own gardens while they were forced to work and harvest whatever the plantation that they were enslaved on was growing. Now, according to food historians, especially like black food historians, black-eyed peas were then incorporated into a lot of winter dishes, and that is where the tradition may have come from. And nowadays, they are served alongside collard greens or other leafy stewed greens, which represent paper money and cornbread which represents gold. So this is like a big like, "We're bringing prosperity with these foods that represent us into the new year."
AMANDA: Also sounds delicious. I love that pairing.
JULIA: It does sound really good, doesn't it? There are similar practices to the eating of black-eyed peas on New Year's Day. Italians, for example, eat lentils because they resemble coins and invoke prosperity and money coming in for the new year.
AMANDA: Why not?
JULIA: And while I know it's not on January 1st, I know that Sephardic Jews in the Middle East and in North Africa also eat black-eyed peas on Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year.
AMANDA: Indeed. Indeed, they do. Again, another delicious, delicious thing that I'll eat anytime.
JULIA: There you go. There you go. And that's another thing where the black-eyed peas kind of moved from West Africa, where they were originally cultivated to, like, the Middle East and Northern Africa. Fun facts.
AMANDA: I love it. Food ways, man, anthropology. It's the history of people.
JULIA: History of food is so fascinating to me. And if I could go back to school and study a thing, it would probably be, like, the anthropology behind food and food history.
AMANDA: By the way, people are interested in the intersections of black American food ways and Jewish identities and history. Michael Twitty is an incredible historian for you. He has a really amazing, delicious cookbook called Koshersoul, but has also given incredible, like, talks and social media posts and podcasts about black American Jewish identities.
JULIA: Very cool. Very cool. I love it when you come in with a very relevant recommendation, Amanda. Thank you for that.
AMANDA: He also just does, like, incredible sort of period cooking in his, like, beautiful country home with his husband, so—
JULIA: Cool.
AMANDA: —Michael Twitty, this is a stand account.
JULIA: So there is another New Year's tradition that I had only heard of this year around the holiday, and it is the 12 grapes at midnight. Have you heard of this one?
AMANDA: Grapes at midnight? I've definitely heard of. My brain is also shouting orange at me, and I don't know if I'm confusing Lunar New Year traditions with Solar New Year traditions, but you tell me.
JULIA: I think so. I think— I know that oranges are particularly popular at the Chinese New Year or something like that, but the 12 grapes at midnight is basically you have to eat a grape with each strike of the bell at midnight.
AMANDA: Okay, wait. That's so quick.
JULIA: It's so quick. So for each grape, it represents one of the months in the upcoming year and the good luck and prosperity that is also supposed to come with that month.
AMANDA: I mean, I could probably fit 12 grapes in my mouth at the same time, but I don't know if I could just, like, rhythmically pound grapes 12 times.
JULIA: It's tough. It's like— and it's every like, "Bong, bong," new grape. "Bong."
AMANDA: I can't chew and swallow in that period. I can't.
JULIA: I think you probably don't have to swallow it entirely, maybe. Maybe you just have to, like, get it in your mouth on each stroke.
AMANDA: Am I doing this before or after a kiss, Julia? Because if I have to kiss after eating all the grapes, that's not going to be pleasant for Eric.
JULIA: No kiss, only grapes.
AMANDA: Okay. All right.
JULIA: So this is also— not only is it supposed to bring good luck and prosperity for each month of the new year. It's also said in some areas to help ward off evil and/or the influence of witches.
AMANDA: Because they look like creepy eyes?
JULIA: So I don't know exactly. This is originally a Spanish tradition. It's been adopted in a lot of other places like the Philippines and Latin America and some Caribbean countries. But it dates back to at least the late 1800s, but then gained popularity in 1909. Do you want to guess what happened in 1909?
AMANDA: I have no idea.
JULIA: Okay, that's fine. It's not like a big, momentous event or anything like that. It's basically like—
AMANDA: I'm like, It's not World War I yet. I don't think there was an inquisition. What happened in 1909?
JULIA: So the popularity was a little bit manufactured. It was said that the vintners that year, the people who grow grapes for wine, were blessed with a really great harvest, but also now had too many grapes and didn't know what to do with them.
AMANDA: Ah.
JULIA: And so in order to increase grape sales, they encourage the practice.
AMANDA: Julia, incredible. Another example of how economics shapes culture, and there is no such thing as culture separate to economics and capitalism. And I— I'm obsessed with this. I have, for ages, threatened to make a podcast with Eric. It was his idea originally, about how, like, lobbying efforts and like big corporations make culture such as the marshmallow lobby wanting to sell marshmallows anytime other than the Fourth of July and inventing sweet potato casserole. So I love this. Put it down. I am going to add this to our list of topics.
JULIA: Yes. It wasn't created by Big Grape, but it was definitely popularized by Big Grape.
AMANDA: Big Grape was like, "Uh-oh. Banner harvest, what do we do?"
JULIA: It's— look, and it worked, Amanda. It worked because they still practice it to this day. It's still a thing that happens to this day.
AMANDA: Incredible. People love a tradition, man.
JULIA: Me, too. Me, too. The last New Year's tradition that I want to mention is eating noodles on New Year, and this is mainly done in East Asian countries like China and Japan. So in China, longevity noodles are eaten during the Chinese New Year because they represent long life. So long as these strands are like eaten whole basically.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: You can't bite into half. You can't cut the noodles in half.
AMANDA: Nah.
JULIA: Because it symbolizes cutting your life short. Makes sense.
AMANDA: Who would do that? You don't, like, hold up a palm with your lifeline and be like, "No, no, no."
JULIA: You're gonna say, "Let me cut that. Cut right through that."
AMANDA: Uh-uh. Uh-uh.
JULIA: So the story goes that this tradition goes back to Emperor Wu of the Han Dynasty, who ruled from 141 to 87 BCE. So he was told, apparently, by one of his advisors, that a person with a long face would live a long life. And Emperor Wu decidedly did not have a long face.
AMANDA: Oh, no. I thought for sure, Julia, it was like, "No, no, Emperor, you're so handsome, and because your face is so long, you're going to live a long life."
JULIA: Yeah, no. Unfortunately, he was like, "I— but I want to live a long life. My face is not long, but I want to live a long life." And so he decided that eating long noodles would do it, because the word noodle sounds similar to the word for face.
AMANDA: I mean, sure. Why not?
JULIA: Yeah. And so the custom spread, became a tradition. The story is probably apocryphal, but it is the most common one that is told.
AMANDA: I assume that anything from 141 BCE is apocryphal, and yet I think this is very sweet.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And I enjoy the headcanon.
JULIA: In Japan, the tradition is slightly different, so the noodles are eaten on New Year's Eve, like December 31st. Traditionally, they are soba noodles. They're eaten in soup. And if you don't know soba noodles, they are traditionally made with buckwheat.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So long soba noodles, again, symbolize long life, just like the Chinese tradition. However, there is a difference, because soba noodles, because they are easy to cut, represent letting go of the previous year's hardships.
AMANDA: Oh, I love that.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: And because soba noodles, like I said, are made of buckwheat, buckwheat is a very resilient crop. It can survive extreme and severe weather, so it represents strength against hardship, that you're bringing that into the new year.
AMANDA: I love that.
JULIA: Yeah. So if you have a New Year's tradition when it comes to food, let me know. I want to hear about it. I really want to do that second roundup.
AMANDA: I think ours was just, like, get a shrimp cocktail platter from Costco.
JULIA: Hmm. Hmm.
AMANDA: Because let's invent it, Julia.
JULIA: Hmm?
AMANDA: The curling of the shrimp represents how the year can take unexpected turns, but will always end up surrounded by friends and family at the end.
JULIA: I like that. I'm also going to add the pink of the shrimp represents—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —fertility.
AMANDA: Great. And the sweet and spicy cocktail sauce is for excitement, but also, you know, sweetness in your new year.
JULIA: Yeah, if you feed your loved one, like say, you're in a couple and you want to get pregnant in the new year and also maintain your relationship, you have to feed your loved one a—
AMANDA: That's right.
JULIA: —shrimp cocktail at New Year's.
AMANDA: And you have to, like, curve your arms, so that like a wedding cake bite—
JULIA: Oh.
AMANDA: —you have to, like, take it. You know, feed it to each other.
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: And that represents coupling.
JULIA: There we go. Wow. Wow. We invented it.
AMANDA: We invented it.
JULIA: A new New Year's tradition for you here, from us at Spirits Podcast.
AMANDA: Ding.
JULIA: All right. So these are all very, like, date specific food traditions and superstitions. But how about some of the everyday ones? Amanda, when I said food traditions or food superstitions to you, what was some of the few that came on the top of your head?
AMANDA: I think the word superstition is a really interesting choice here, because there are absolutely things where— I think a superstition, I think, like, don't walk under a ladder. Don't, like, cross the path of a cat, whatever. Some of which are good. Like you shouldn't—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —stand under a ladder. That's a great idea. But also—
JULIA: Dangerous.
AMANDA: —I think superstitions often come as a, you know, technology of food safety. So for example, keeping kosher. A lot of those, like restrictions and rules come from food safety, and is just like—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —generally a good idea to stick to. And how people interpret that and do or don't keep it now is up to them, but the origins are often in like, "Hey, it is probably a bad idea to mix, you know, meat and milk if we are in, you know, checks watch, the first millennium BCE with that refrigeration."
JULIA: That's very true and very fair. I think a lot of the ones that we're going to be talking about do have, like, a nugget of like, "Yeah, it would be bad to do that thing, however—" and that's why we create these stories around them. However, some of them are, like, just for funsies, it seems like.
AMANDA: I think the biggest superstition is just like the salt spilling, where if it spills, you have to chuck it over your shoulder or something, or say something, or say, "Bless you." That's the only one.
JULIA: Oh, Amanda. That was the first one that was the first one that came to my mind as well.
AMANDA: Oh. Nice.
JULIA: So for people who aren't familiar with it, this is a Western belief, it's originated in Europe, that's—
AMANDA: I thought you were gonna say, "People who aren't Italian." And I'm like, "That's fair."
JULIA: That's so spicy. No, it's okay. So, basically, it's this idea that spilling salt is an evil omen that also invites bad luck.
AMANDA: Which is interesting because making a circle or barrier of salt is often a purifying and protective thing in folklore.
JULIA: Yes. And that is true in a lot of different cultural belief systems and stuff like that. Where we get this from is, actually, really interesting. So scholars believe this goes all the way back to ancient Rome, and we have this Italian Renaissance writer named Pierio Valeriano who wrote that— for the ancient Roman's quote, "Salt was formerly a symbol of friendship because of its lasting quality. For it makes substances more compact and preserves them for a long time." Hence, it was usually presented to guests before other food to signify the abiding strength of friendship. Wherefore, many consider it ominous to spill salt on the table.
AMANDA: Interesting. I love that salt makes everything taste more like itself.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: And I think that's what a beautiful friendship like ours does, Julia.
JULIA: Oh, I love that. Yes. And he's really talking about, like, using salt as a preservation thing, which was something that a lot of people realized very quickly was something that you could do in order to make sure, like, your meat doesn't go bad real quick.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: But it's also really interesting because, you know, add the fact that salt was extremely valuable as a good in ancient times, so spilling salt was considered bad form as much as it was bad luck. It's wasting a very valuable product.
AMANDA: That would be my first guess. Very like, "Oh, the woods are full of danger and monsters, children, don't go in them." You know?
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Like the technology of the lore is like, "Please, please, don't spill—" you know, imagine spilling, like, vanilla extract. I would be like, "Oh, let me just light $40 on fire."
JULIA: Yeah. It's like, "Oh, I spilled a whole tablespoon. That's $12."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So the Renaissance was also ripe with salt lore.
AMANDA: Oh, I'm sure. How does the devil get in there?
JULIA: It's all because of Judas, Amanda.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: The apostle who betrayed Jesus at the Last Supper. He was said to have spilled salt at The Last Supper table as well. And this was such a permeating story that Da Vinci actually incorporated it into his painting of The Last Supper.
AMANDA: Which, basically, is now like the canonical representation of The Last Supper. Like you say The Last Supper, I have to imagine 85% of people for whom that phrase has meaning—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —would picture the Da Vinci painting.
JULIA: Yes, exactly, exactly. So it's really interesting. It's something that definitely permeated a lot of Western culture and European culture. And there are, according to the different beliefs and the different superstitions, different ways to avoid the evil that supposedly comes with spilling salt, especially if it is done by accident. But the most common way, which you kind of brought up earlier, Amanda, is taking a pinch of the salt that was spilled and throwing it over your left shoulder, because supposedly, it's to throw salt in the eye of the devil, who is now lurking over your shoulder.
AMANDA: Who comes up to the left, because people who are left-handed, the devil?
JULIA: Yep, yep. That's why the nuns didn't like that very much.
AMANDA: I guess.
JULIA: So that's what I have on salt. I think it's a really interesting thing that it's like, "Salt is so valuable, don't fucking waste it," has turned into, "Ooh, bad luck."
AMANDA: Absolutely fair. I also just love the idea that the devil loves a salty snack. And much like me, after one or two drinks, I'm like, "Hmm, give me some munchy mix. Give me some pretzels, give me some potato chips." That's all I want.
JULIA: I just want French fries more than anything in the world right now.
AMANDA: Hmm. Yes, please.
JULIA: Two margaritas and you're just like, "I would kill for French fries."
AMANDA: Give me that chips and guac, and I'm going to—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —make sure I have a high lip contact to chip skin ratio, because I want that salt.
JULIA: So now that we've talked about a superstition that brings bad luck and potentially evil with the devil, let's talk about something that wards off those things, and that is garlic.
AMANDA: Oh, Julia, that beautiful Allium. What my tum cannot continence.
JULIA: It's super canned. I'm so sorry, buddy.
Amand: I know, I know. I told a friend recently that I was Allium intolerant, who is a chef, and he just, like, laid his hand on my hand and was like, "I'm so sorry."
JULIA: I was making soup yesterday and I thought of you, because I was like, "Oh, there's garlic and onion in this. Amanda can't eat this."
AMANDA: No, no. But I am pretty handy with lemongrass and ginger, so—
JULIA: There you go.
AMANDA: You know?
JULIA: So I'm sure a lot of people have at least heard of garlic warding off vampires. That is definitely a very popularized food superstition, especially here in the West. But traditionally, Central European folklore believes that garlic is a powerful ward not only against vampires, but also all sorts of evil beings, like demons and devils and werewolves and the evil eye.
AMANDA: Yeah. This is totally in, like Jewish food superstitions and in, like, witchcraft as well, of using garlic in, you know, like poultices and, like, different things to just, like, ward off the evil eye or like other forms of evil.
JULIA: Yeah. And there's a lot of different ways you can really go about that. You could wear it on your body. You could hang it from the windows of your home. This was a new one to me, you could take the cloves and rub it in chimneys and keyholes to keep evil out.
AMANDA: Oh. I mean, probably doesn't hurt with pests.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. So that's the thing, too, is, like, there is a superstition— and I'm calling it a superstition just because it isn't, like, scientifically necessarily backed, but this idea that garlic wards off mosquitoes, and that's actually what ties it to the vampire protection in some ways, because diseases spread by mosquitoes were sometimes superstitiously referred to as, quote, "The touch of the vampire."
AMANDA: Okay, Julia. I believe, out there, there is a ConSpiriter who studies bugs. That person is called an—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —entomologist with an N, like ant. Not an etymologist—
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: —of words, which is also good. And I think that some entomologist out there could tell us if it is true that eating sweet foods like fruit makes you tastier to the mosques, because I— sorry, the mosquitoes, not the houses of worship. I think that if skweets [21:11] as we call them in my household, if skweets [21:12] don't like eating upon people who eat the pungent alliums, that would explain a lot about my personal life and therefore, I would really like to know about it. So I completely believe that eating a lot of garlic may make you less tasty for mosquitoes.
JULIA: Yeah, someone tell us, because I feel like I looked this up and was getting mixed results in terms of whether it's true or not, so I'm curious.
AMANDA: When I was eating like 50% fruit as my meals, I was absolutely tastier to mosquitoes than not. So this could be just apocryphal and about me and a coincidence.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Or it could be true. So entomologists, get in touch.
JULIA: Get in touch. So it's interesting, because I think the protection of garlic as a, like, protective thing definitely predates a lot of vampire lore. The Egyptians believed that garlic could ward off illness as well as increased strength and endurance. And in many ways, it was considered a luxury food. Like I think there is a part of the story of Moses, and Moses leading the Jews away from Egypt where they're complaining about, like, the things that they miss, like the luxuries while they're in the desert and one of them is garlic.
AMANDA: Incredible. And, I mean, it does, right? Like, it's extremely healthful.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. It's very good for you. Like, again, I don't know how much of garlic is, like, folk medicine versus, like, real scientific basis, but like, I know that, like, eating a clove of garlic when you feel sick, at least makes me feel better, you know?
AMANDA: If it helps, it helps, dude.
JULIA: And with a spoonful of honey. So, like, we'll crush the garlic and then put it in a spoonful of honey. You go, "Hump." And then I'm—
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Like a—
JULIA: —like, "Ooh, spicy, sweet, and gross."
AMANDA: —garlic soup, a garlic poultice. Like, people—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —do this stuff.
JULIA: Yeah. The ancient Greeks would place garlic at crossroads as a offering to Hecate to ask of her protection from evil spirits and to also make them lose their way if they're following a traveler.
AMANDA: Oh, okay. They're like, "Sniff, sniff."
JULIA: I like that.
AMANDA: "Wait, where'd they go?"
JULIA: Exactly. They get so confused about the smell.
AMANDA: I also really like the idea that placing garlic at a crossroads is helpful. It's like, "Make a left of the garlic patch." And that's like, "Oh, oh, great. Thank you. Yes. No, I know where that is."
JULIA: Of course, of course. The Greeks also hung garlic cloves in birthing rooms in order to keep evil spirits away during the birthing process. So we— basically, we know that many cultures have used garlic for medicinal purposes, and a lot still do, but the oldest records we can find of using garlic to treat illnesses, it's actually in Sanskrit records from over 5,000 years old.
AMANDA: That's amazing.
JULIA: So we've been using garlic to protect us from illness and evil for a long, long time.
AMANDA: Love that tasty bulb. And if you are somebody who can eat alliums, please—
JULIA: Do it for Amanda.
AMANDA: —crush up a clove for me. Crush up a clove for me. Uh-hmm. Also shout out to any birthing people. I can't imagine anything worse than a pungent smell of garlic when I'm in extreme pain.
JULIA: Fair, fair. Hopefully, they're wrapped up, so at least they're not, like, very stinky. You know?
AMANDA: That's fair. Maybe not super, like, aromatic, but my first thought was like, "Oh God, I feel like that's not—" I mean, famously strong smells are not great when you're pregnant.
JULIA: No, no. Definitely not, especially during the morning sickness period. Not fantastic. So this one, Amanda, is another one that I thought of when I was thinking about food superstitions from my own life, even though I don't think it's an activity that I've ever actually done, but I've seen it in, like, movies and TV shows, which is breaking the wishbone.
AMANDA: Oh, you're so right. I've done that before.
JULIA: There you go. So it's like for people who don't know, this is like, kind of, in America, at least, a Thanksgiving tradition, because one, the turkey is, like, a large bird, and so the wishbone is, like, bigger than it would be in smaller birds.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: However. Or, I suppose you could do it with, like, any kind of bird, so long as there is a wishbone in there. And I'll give you a hint, they used to do it with other birds.
AMANDA: Ooh, really?
JULIA: Yeah. Occasionally, like, when I'm de boning, like a rotisserie chicken, I'll find the wishbone, but I'm like, "I'm not breaking it into when I'm doing that, because I'm just trying to, like, get through that process." You know?
AMANDA: Fair, fair.
JULIA: But for people unaware of this tradition, two people grab either side of the wishbone, and then they break the bone apart by pulling it apart, and they make a wish while they do that. And then the person who comes away with the larger part of the wishbone gets their wish granted. But, Amanda, where did this come from, and how did it end up at our Thanksgiving table?
AMANDA: I have no idea.
JULIA: Well, Amanda, it starts with the Etruscans.
AMANDA: The Etruscans?
JULIA: The Etruscans. So—
AMANDA: They're not who I think of when I think of a US food lore.
JULIA: Nor should you, really. This is really the only thing that the Etruscans are kind of tied to when it comes to US food lore. But the Etruscans, who were the ancient people of Italy, who predated the Roman Empire, they practiced a kind of divination that focused mainly on birds.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: And particularly, chickens.
AMANDA: Right on. I love everything about this. Tell me more.
JULIA: So, for example, they believed that chickens, when they were, like, put into like an area with letters on the ground, they would be allowed to peck at the letters.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: And you could divine answers to questions posed by the question asker based on what the chickens pecked at.
AMANDA: I have never loved anything more. Homesteading TikTok, get back on it.
JULIA: Get on it.
AMANDA: Get your osteomancy. Get your pollomancy. I don't know if that's how you would do it, but that certainly is a Spanish word for chicken. And I want to see videos of your pets. You know those videos that are like, "My dog chooses the activity for the day," and he, like, chooses a different thing.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: I want to see the chickens choose your life course of 2025.
JULIA: I also want to see more of this instead of the like, "We taught our dog how to "speak," quote-unquote, using one of those, like, buttons. You know?
AMANDA: I want those dumb, dumb birds to do your life choosing.
JULIA: I want those birds to file my taxes.
AMANDA: And they'd be like, "Sorry, the government, it was Winnie, the chicken."
JULIA: Winnie, the chicken. Oh. Sorry, I was just thinking about a chicken named Nugget, and that would be quite something. Anyway—
AMANDA: It would.
JULIA: —there was another form of— now, I'm gonna call it pollomancy. There's another form of pollomancy, where—
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: —when a chicken was killed, they would take the wishbone.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: And they wouldn't break it. They would, instead, put it in the sun, so that, like drying in the sun, so that people could touch it and then use its oracular power. So, basically, people would wish upon it when they touched it and that is how it got the name, the wishbone.
AMANDA: Cool. I mean, it's pretty.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: It's in the shape of, you know, like a V, and certainly, like a horseshoe or something. You could, like, hang it, I guess.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: I'm— I understand how it's sort of like a— feels like a receptacle in some ways.
JULIA: Yes. So when the Etruscans fell and the Romans rose, they continued this bird divination, the pollomancy if you will.
AMANDA: Pollomancy, thank you.
JULIA: The wishbone as a source of wish granting. However, because the Romans were toxic as hell, instead of leaving the wishbone out for people to use, the Romans created this competitive nature of the wishbone, where whoever came away with the larger piece would have their wish granted.
AMANDA: It's a real we can't agree on who gets to, like, you know, use the toy right now, so we break the toy and then everyone has a piece.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
AMANDA: That's how I think of early Roman Empire, is, like the toddler that's too strong and, like, understands why they shouldn't, but doesn't.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. That's not wrong. That's not wrong. So as the Romans spread their influence through conquests, the tradition eventually reached England. However, England might have had their own bird divination going on. I'm not sure how much of it predates the Roman influence, but the first written record of using the merrythought, which is a goose's wishbone to divine weather, dates back to 1455.
AMANDA: I'm gonna need you to tell me a lot more about this.
JULIA: Well, a goose, because it is poultry, also has a wishbone.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: It was called the merrythought.
AMANDA: Why?
JULIA: I don't know. I don't know.
AMANDA: Julia, I need to know.
JULIA: I know, I'm sorry. I think it has to do with the fact that they were using it to kind of divine better weather. It would happen on a specific, like, one of those saints days, you know?
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: It was also— there was another tradition about the merrythought, which is if it was broken by two single people, the one with the larger piece would be the one to get married first.
AMANDA: Oh, I thought you were gonna say would kiss and fall in love, and I got very excited about that.
JULIA: There's a lot of that later, I promise. Not with the wishbone, but with other traditions that we're going to talk about.
AMANDA: Okay. Damn. I'm gonna— okay, opens up tab for later, merrythought.
JULIA: We also know that the English columnists brought these traditions to America, where it was introduced and continued to be part of our Thanksgiving traditions. And that's why we break the wishbone on Thanksgiving.
AMANDA: I see, from Italy to England over to the US. We are picking out the specific chest bones of birds, apparently, and saying—
JULIA: Sure.
AMANDA: "—Hey, please make the weather better."
JULIA: Yeah. Pollomancy.
AMANDA: Pollomancy is going to stick with me for a long time.
JULIA: All right, Amanda, we're gonna think about Pollomancy, but we gotta go grab our refill. How about that?
AMANDA: Let's do it.
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AMANDA: Hello, hello, it's Amanda, and welcome to the refill, where I'm gonna tell you guys we have some exciting changes happening. We're gonna restructure the way we sequence and do the midroll. We are going to be posting even more to Patreon for both free and paid supporters. And hey, if you have been thinking about or if you are currently at the top of our top tier patrons, we have some great stuff on the way. So for now, thank you, as always, to our supporting producer-level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Hannah, Jane, Lily, Matthew, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Scott, Wil and AE (Ah), as well as our legend-level patrons, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Michael, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. If you would like to join their ranks and be first in line to know what's happening with Spirits and everything that we are doing, join for free or for paid at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Now, for anyone who is impacted by the LA wildfires, I just got nothing to say except we have your back. We are thinking about you, and I am linking to the most comprehensive list of resources that I have seen so far in the description. If you or anyone you know is impacted and needs help navigating bureaucracy, that's just the thing I love to do, and I would be happy to put it to use for anyone you need. Find me on social @shessomickey, or Bluesky, I'm @AmandaMC. We're gonna do what we can. We got you. Over here in Spirits land, we are working on all of the different episodes we're gonna be making for 2025. We have some exciting collabs, we have some exciting guests, we have some exciting roundups all coming, and so it's a great time. If you have wanted us to cover a topic or to interview somebody, we would love, especially, your guest recommendations. We are always open to your ideas, but this is an especially great time to send us your guest recommendations, email us directly, spiritspodcast@gmail.com or go to spiritspodcast.com/contact to fill out our contact form. Both things go to the same place, but if you email us directly, you can also attach photos, which we always welcome, of your pets, your plants, really, whatever you want. I have also been working on my interview skills generally, and now, apart from interviewing very cool authors and people with Julia on Spirits, I've not done a lot of just, like, straight up interviewing people on a podcast, which seems very unusual. That seems like a thing you associate podcasts with, is interviews and, like, yes, we do them here, and they're super fun. But I've never, like, prepared a full research document and question list for guests on my own. And I've been doing that for the last few months over on Attach Your Resume, which is a brand-new show from Multitude. It debuted in September that interviews online creators about how their jobs work and how they got there. And yes, it's definitely firmly rooted in the creator economy, but it's really just a podcast about jobs and work, and how it makes us feel. And how as people, as workers and as creative workers, we make decisions and grow in our jobs without letting that whole sort of thing eclipse and consume us. I'm really proud of a lot of the episodes we've made. I co-host it with Eric Silver. It's edited by Mischa Stanton and Brandon Grugle is our producer. It really is a big team effort over here at Multitude. So if you're interested in the stories behind media, if you're interested in hearing me interview people, not about mythology and folklore. Or if you are kind of curious about, like, the whole world of jobs and careers and advancement and how different, interesting, creative people think about it, look up Attach Your Resume in your podcast app now. We are sponsored this week by Tab for a Cause, which if giving to charity or raising money for good causes is part of your resolution list for the year, this is a wonderful free way that everybody, if you use a web browser, you qualify, can help raise money for charity as you browse the web. Just go to tabforacause.org/spirits, where you can join Team Spirits. And basically what it is, is a browser extension. You can install it on Chrome, Firefox, whatever you use. It shows you a beautiful photo of somewhere in the world and then a small text ad every time you open up a new tab. I promise you, the ads are very unobtrusive, you're not going to notice them. But at the same time, you are raising little fractions of a $1 for charity every single time you open a tab, which, if you're like me, is hundreds of times a day. And so when you join Team Spirits, we make a little bit of money, and also Tab for a Cause makes a little bit of money, but mostly, we raise money for charity. 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And now, back to the show.
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JULIA: Amanda, we are back. And I don't have a cocktail recommendation for you this time. I'm not participating in dry January, but I am cutting down my alcohol intake pretty substantially for January. But, hey, sometimes I don't need a glass of wine when I finish my work day. Sometimes I can just chill and save my little cocktails for when I'm being a social person.
AMANDA: I totally agree, and I think that doing dry January or having a strip of time after the holidays, where you cut back or cease on alcohol consumption is something wonderful that we should celebrate and encourage people to do and support them when they do it. I've been going to my local dive bar to, like, work and write a little bit in the evenings, and similarly, enjoying my lime seltzer with lime juice. And everybody has been super supportive and kind. And just asking people like, "Hey, what do you need?" And not presuming that they want to drink alcohol is, I think, a wonderful thing to take into the new year.
JULIA: Yeah. And I want to say that cheersing with non-alcoholic beverages, so long as it's not water, is actually not bad luck. So I wanted to talk about the fun, little aside about drinking superstitions, which is the cheers. You know? The cheers.
AMANDA: Yes. People have definitely told me like, "Oh, don't cheers with water."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And I'm like, "Okay, is it better if I just, like, mime holding a glass?" Tell me about this.
JULIA: Well, so there's a lot of different origins for, like, the toast or cheers. Some say that it's a way of honoring the gods with sacrificial libations that has kind of continued to this day.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Other people say it's because touching glasses together so that the drinks kind of spill into each other eases fears of poisoning.
AMANDA: Oh, okay. Okay.
JULIA: Because if they spill into each other, then, you know, you're both poisoned.
AMANDA: I mean, if I'm doing a cheer so vigorous that something spills, I say, "Uh-oh. I shouldn't be drinking more."
JULIA: True. True and fair. But toasting incorrectly or not at all, Amanda, according to superstitions, it can bring bad luck or even death to the person who refuses it.
AMANDA: Oh, my God. Why?
JULIA: Because it's kind of showing, like, bad— I think it all kind of stem—
AMANDA: Just like bad vibes.
JULIA: It's bad vibes, but it also kind of stems back to, like, host and guest hospitality laws.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: And so if you are being offered a beverage and you are not like, you know, honoring that offering, bad luck to you. Or perhaps the worst fate, according to the Spanish, seven years of bad sex.
AMANDA: Huh.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Okay. I would say it's worse to die, but that's just me.
JULIA: Because you're not Spanish.
AMANDA: You know, Julia, that's true.
JULIA: But, Amanda, just saying, make sure you do your cheers before you enjoy your drink, whether that is a cocktail or a mocktail, just not water.
AMANDA: I prefer my seltzer with so much lime juice, it looks cloudy. And the other people at the bar say, "What is that?" And I'd say, "Can I drink too much lime juice over the course of my four to five seltzers?" I don't think so, because I'm just going to be like very not having scurvy.
JULIA: That's how you get reverse scurvy.
AMANDA: Where I'm too curvy, not scurvy?
JULIA: Yeah. Yeah. Did you know that we do a potentially ancient Greek food superstition literally every year?
AMANDA: No. What is that?
JULIA: I'm talking about birthday cakes, and specifically, making a wish and blowing out the candles on our cakes.
AMANDA: Really?
JULIA: Really.
AMANDA: This is totally a food superstition that didn't even occur to me, because it's just so like a ritualized part of my life.
JULIA: Yes, exactly. So our modern understanding of birthday cakes started in Europe around the mid-19th century.
AMANDA: Really? That's newer than I'd expect.
JULIA: Yeah. You know, it's this idea of, like, everyone gets a cake. It's for the children, mainly, but like, everyone gets a cake every year to celebrate their birthday, right?
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: But celebratory birthday cakes for special birthdays, like not every year, just like important years. Like, I would guess for us, it would be, like, 18, 21, 30, like, you know, on the decade, perhaps.
AMANDA: Quinceanera, et cetera.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. That dates back all the way to ancient Rome. Now, these weren't like the kind of cakes that we have nowadays. These were usually made out of, like, flour and nuts and then sweetened with honey. But the birthday candle, it is theorized that this tradition comes from the Greeks. Now, candles were placed on cakes not to celebrate our birth, but to honor the birth of the goddess Artemis on the sixth—
AMANDA: Really?
JULIA: —day of every month.
AMANDA: Fascinating. And so we're just like Artemis loves her birthday, the original birthday girly?
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And she needs cakes for it?
JULIA: It's that, but as we also know from our It's All Greek To Me episodes, Artemis is associated with childbirth, and she is the protector of young children. So giving—
AMANDA: I see.
JULIA: —cake to children and lighting candles is actually kind of honoring Artemis.
AMANDA: I have definitely met multiple moms who are like, "No, no, no, the kid's birthday is for me, and so I, I appreciate the Artemis origins of that."
JULIA: To be fair, up to a certain point, that is true.
AMANDA: Up to a certain point, yes. Yeah.
JULIA: It's like those first two years, and baby's not gonna remember anything.
AMANDA: That's what I think. It's like—
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: —y'all, the parental system survived a full year and a full two years, you guys should have a party.
JULIA: Yeah. We're going to a baby's first birthday party in, like, the couple weekends from now and I'm like, "Everyone's just gonna be really drunk. You know?"
AMANDA: Well, if you think about—"
JULIA: Everyone's just gonna be like—
AMANDA: —I'm supporting the parents. Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: That makes a little more sense.
JULIA: They're raging, you know? It's gonna be—
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: —a lot of the little baby cousins running around and then a lot of the parents being like, "There's no organization to this, because this baby's not going to know what's going on. This is a one year old."
AMANDA: You know, my— some of my cousins hosted a Christmas party, like post-Christmas, you know, New Year's-ish gathering for, like, the extended McLoughlins, and the hosts were, like, imbibing more than they typically would. But then I was like, "Huh? Like, right on." And then one of them goes, "Yeah, I'm at home. My parents are here. All my cousins are here. Multiple childcare. I can do whatever I want." And I was like, "Fair enough, Sean. [42:51] Yes, you can."
JULIA: Actually, fair, Sean.
AMANDA: You should have to walk up the stairs to go home. I love this for you.
JULIA: If there is another type of food, Amanda, that has a lot of folklore and superstition around it, much like garlic, it's got to be eggs.
AMANDA: Eggs, yes. I— eggs, bread, milk are going to be—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —the sort of, like, trifecta of food staples in my tradition growing up, and also the things that my mom calls me to tell me to buy anytime a significant rainstorm is coming.
JULIA: Yep. Or like a snowstorm or— there's snow on the horizon, people are buying their eggs and milk.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: It's fine. You don't need eggs and milk that badly. It's okay. It's okay
AMANDA: It's okay. Also, you can freeze bread. Keep it in the freezer, it'll be okay.
JULIA: Exactly. I do that all the time.
AMANDA: Eggs are expensive right now, a lot going on.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. All right. So eggs have superstitions all over the world and also lots of variations at that, you know? Like, it's not just like, oh, everyone believes this about eggs. No, there's a ton of different egg things, and there— it's all over the place. And this makes sense, because if you think about it, eggs not only are an important part of a lot of society's food cultures, but it's also a great symbol. You know?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: It is, in many ways, the life cycle personified.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So as such, it is seen as a symbol of fertility or at least is used to evoke fertility in a lot of cultures. And in many cultures, it is tied to the creation myths, like the creation stories with the universe or the cosmos being born out of an egg, like Chinese folklore believes this. There are quite a few Native American creation stories that believe this. But in terms of superstition, I'll tell you a couple of my favorites, which is— there's a English superstition that if you are a girl who wants to know who your true love is—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —you place an egg in front of a fire on a stormy night. This might be why your mom is telling you to buy eggs before storms, Amanda.
AMANDA: Possibly. And what, the idea is like you cook it and then eat it, and then you're feeling full as you think about your future?
JULIA: See, that would make more sense. It's basically this idea of you put an egg in front of the fireplace on a stormy night, and your true love is supposed to walk through the door and pick up the egg, and that's how you know who it is.
AMANDA: If someone walked into my home, looked at my hearth, saw a single egg, and then their first reaction was to pick it up? I'd also be like, "You must know something I don't, because this is a wild sequence of events."
JULIA: There is a saltier version of this from the Ozarks, actually, which is a girl who wants to know her true love will boil an egg.
AMANDA: Uh-huh.
JULIA: Remove the yolk.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Fill the hole that is left by the yolk with salt. And then, before she goes to bed, she eats the salted egg. And then she'll dream of the man she's going to marry who will bring her water in the dream to perch her thirst.
AMANDA: That girl will have, perhaps, salt poisoning. That is a wild ratio of salt to egg. Oh, my God.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. It's not a good one.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: Imagine a yolk-sized chunk of salt.
AMANDA: I am and my mouth is now dry.
JULIA: Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's pretty bad.
AMANDA: I definitely heard that double yolks are a sign of fertility and, like, a good portent for someone who is trying to get pregnant.
JULIA: A very common one, a very common one. Sometimes, though, double yolk, a bad sign.
AMANDA: Oh, 'cause it's like devilish?
JULIA: Yeah, or it's just like this idea of like, "Oh, that wasn't supposed to happen like that. You know, it's un— otherworldly."
AMANDA: I guess depending on your attitude to pregnancy, either one could be, you know, fair.
JULIA: You know how much I love sailor folklore.
AMANDA: Oh, of course.
JULIA: Now, sailor folklore says that when you eat an egg, you have to crush up the shells.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Do you want to know why?
AMANDA: Because waste is to be avoided on ship voyages?
JULIA: Amanda, no, because a witch could use the shell as a boat and then follow you across the sea to sink your ship.
AMANDA: Any witch that could fit in a little eggshell.
JULIA: Any witch—
AMANDA: That's so cute.
JULIA: She shrinks herself down.
AMANDA: So cute.
JULIA: Also, Amanda, have you ever had a dream about an egg?
AMANDA: I can't say that I have.
JULIA: You have pretty mundane dreams, so—
AMANDA: I do. I mean, I've probably cooked in my dreams and I'm often cooking eggs. So let me go ahead and say yes.
JULIA: Well, dreaming of eggs can mean that trouble is coming, but if the shell is broken, it actually means that a crisis has been averted.
AMANDA: Oh, okay. Well, I probably break the shells of the eggs when I cook in my mundane dreams, so let me go ahead and say, yay.
JULIA: Yay. We did it. Okay, good. So crisis averted, your egg was cracked, which is kind of the opposite of what it's like in real life.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Kind of fun.
AMANDA: I will tell you, Julia, one— once recently, I was like, trying to, like, help Eric in the kitchen. I sort of got in the way, and I dropped an egg, and it broke on the floor. And I was like, "Oh, no one is gonna clean this for me."
JULIA: Just me. Hmm, okay.
AMANDA: One of the worst parts of adulthood is cleaning up your own messes.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Metaphorically and literally.
JULIA: My life has changed since buying a, like, handheld DustBuster.
AMANDA: Yes, we talked about this.
JULIA: And I was like, "Why did we go away from this? This is so much better. This is so much better."
AMANDA: You can some bust all the dust, wherever I can reach.
JULIA: Exactly. I don't have to break out the full-sized vacuum, and I don't have to sweep.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: DustBust, it's great.
AMANDA: Ideal.
JULIA: Of course, Amanda, we've also talked about using eggs in folk medicine on the show before. Eggs can be used in egg cleansing, which is La limpia, in order to cleanse the body in a lot of South American folk medicine. So basically, how that works is a raw egg is rolled over the body of a person who needs cleansing or healing. And once it's been rolled over their body, the egg is then broken over a glass of water, where the egg is then, like, red to kind of determine what the malady or illness is, and therefore, what healing needs to be done.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, there are, I am sure, a ton more egg superstitions and myths. I probably could do a whole episode on just eggs, and I can't imagine what that would look like in our feed. But maybe at some point, we can do that. I don't know. But for now, we're gonna move on to another food superstition that is somewhat also of a gardening superstition, and that is planting basil to bring good luck.
AMANDA: Okay. Great. I mean, lots of herb folklore, I'm certain. But why—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —is basil specifically said to bring good luck?
JULIA: Yeah. So you and I have both talked about our love of gardening on the show, and one of the first plants that I ever planted when I moved into my house was basil. Mostly because I love using it. It's very easy to grow. But did you know that planting basil, especially by your door or garden gate, is supposed to bring you good luck in your home?
AMANDA: I did not know that. I do know that planting herbs near your kitchen door is a time-honored tradition, because, hey, you got to go get them, and you're probably in the kitchen already. But no, why is it lucky?
JULIA: So it's interesting because it's a little bit complex. So basil has a history of being an herb of both love and also death. The Greeks believed that basil, quote, "exists only to drive men insane" because of its strong, heady aroma.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: And the Greeks also gave it its name from the word of Basilica, which it basically means royal or little crown, because the leaves make a little crown.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: And basil was also a very important herb for the ancient Egyptians, because it played a role in the embalming process and it became a symbol of mourning.
AMANDA: Huh? To me—
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: —basil is so reminiscent of like a pizza place that I just had a bit of cognitive dissonance imagining the smell of basil in ancient Egypt, which makes no sense at all, but just is, like, a very funny thing that just happened in my head.
JULIA: They found bundles of dried basil in King Tut's tomb.
AMANDA: That's amazing.
JULIA: Isn't that wild?
AMANDA: Very cool.
JULIA: That's so cool. So Amanda, you know the basilisk that like half-lizard, half-dragon, half-rooster monster?
AMANDA: Yes, of course.
JULIA: The one that can turn people into stone just by looking at them?
AMANDA: How can I not?
JULIA: Or just killing them—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —by just looking at them, depending on which myth you're talking about? It was said that basil was the magical cure against the look or even the bite of the basilisk.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: And it's even further tied to poisonous creatures in the Middle Ages, where— and Amanda, this is the wildest thing I read in terms of this episode, in researching this.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: If you were to place a few basil leaves under a flower pot and then leave it for a couple of days, and then lift it up after a few days, you would have grown a scorpion.
AMANDA: Aaah. Really?
JULIA: I have no idea where this one comes from or why it exists, but it's wild and I love it.
AMANDA: It's like, "Okay. I mean, you're probably gonna have made food for ants or snails or slugs, but nope, just full scorpion."
JULIA: Imagine you're in England, and you raise up your flower pot, and there's just a scorpion there.
AMANDA: I'd say, "Blimey, honey, there's a scorpion." And then drop it and run away.
JULIA: Blimey. The Romans were a bit split on basil in terms of how they viewed it.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Common basil was considered a symbol of hatred, whereas sweet basil was considered a token of love that could be given to a young woman.
AMANDA: Now, Julia, I think it was the use of the word common. The Romans hated things that were common.
JULIA: Yeah, that's true. That's true. The Romans actually would use basil as a way of cursing their enemies. So they would curse and call upon the gods to curse their enemies while they planted basil seeds. And they also believed that the worse you treated the herb, the better it would grow. Which I will say—
AMANDA: Not wrong.
JULIA: —is true of some herbs, like lavender, for example. But in my experience, basil is a diva, and it needs to be watered a lot.
AMANDA: I guess it depends very much on your climate and how adaptable basil is to it. Because I know people who just like, have, like, one leaf of basil, they, like, chuck it in the garden, and then later they have a bush. And I think it depends very much. That's how lavender grows in our specific climate.
JULIA: Yes. I don't live in the Mediterranean, so my basil is a diva and needs to be watered every day.
AMANDA: I do highly, highly appreciate the image of being in your garden, right, in your gardening clothes, gloves on, like, little sun protection, et cetera, and then being like, "Curse this enemy, curse that enemy. Curse this enemy, curse that enemy," as I'm like, planting my seedlings.
JULIA: Well, fuck Todd, and fuck Michelle, and fuck David.
AMANDA: Fuck Steve, and fuck Ellen, and fuck Kathy. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
JULIA: Sorry to all of our listeners whose names we just listed.
AMANDA: Except the three I said, I mean it.
JULIA: Oh, fuck. There are a couple of, like, love traditions around basil. It was said that if a young maiden wore a sprig of basil in her hair, it meant that she was looking for marriage.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: And this also kind of ties to a Romanian tradition where if a boy accepts a sprig of basil from a girl, it means they are engaged to be married.
AMANDA: Don't just be giving that out willy-nilly.
JULIA: No. And also, don't just be like receiving basil from ladies, is what I'm saying.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: And also, similar to our egg traditions from earlier, if you placed a sprig of basil under your pillow, you will dream of your future lover.
AMANDA: I mean, probably also just have a pleasant dream with aromatherapy.
JULIA: It's so nice. It smells so good. In England, dating back to the 1600s, basil was hung in doorways to ward off not only unwanted insects, but also more spiritual and energy pests, like evil spirits, but also just like people with bad energy.
AMANDA: I love the idea that people with bad vibes just hate strong smells. Like doesn't matter if it's garlic, basil, whatever it might be, just, you know, adorn yourself in smell and the bad vibes will leave you alone.
JULIA: There you go. There you go. So I really like that. As such, the tradition of planting basil near your front door or by your garden gate is said to encourage abundance and luck, and also keep bad energy, aka pests, out of your home.
AMANDA: Or terrible, annoying people.
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. I consider them pests.
AMANDA: Same.
JULIA: All right. One last food superstition for this episode. I know there are so, so, so many more out there. Again, if you have a favorite, make sure you write into us and tell us about it. But the last one that I wanted to talk to you about, Amanda, was coffee.
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: There's quite a few superstitions around using, like, coffee for divinatory practices. I'm sure people have heard of using tea leaves to read, like, the future.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: But you could also do it with coffee grounds. It's a very popular thing, and multiple cultures have it. But we'll start with my favorite coffee superstition for the first one, because it's something that we've all had to go through before, which is spilling your coffee.
AMANDA: Oh, for sure. Annoying.
JULIA: So there is an Egyptian superstition that if you spill your coffee, though it has to be by accident, not on purpose, it is a sign that happiness and good fortune are coming your way. Like your cup is so full that, like, your fortunes are spilling.
AMANDA: I really like that, because I imagine the emotional reaction of being like, "Shit. Oh, okay. Well, maybe this is a good thing."
JULIA: Yeah, it's like, the same thing as getting pooped on by a bird—
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: —being good luck for you. Yeah, I think it's very similar. Also, if you intentionally spill your coffee, bad luck instead of good. Makes sense.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Come on, diva, we can't do that.
JULIA: And as we talked about, I love sailor myths, and for sailors, it is bad luck to pretty much ever wash your coffee cup. This is a more modern one.
AMANDA: Is this wrong like cast iron, which you can wash?
JULIA: No. So here's the thing. It's basically this idea, there's a couple of suspected reasons that it's considered bad luck to wash your coffee cup. It was said that when rations were short, that the caked on coffee left over in the cup from previous cups actually enhanced the flavor of otherwise weak coffee.
AMANDA: I mean, sure.
JULIA: Yeah. And then sometimes sailors would like top off their old coffee with new coffee every morning to kind of stretch the rations even further, which let it cake on even more so. So while a clean cup is nice and all, for sailors, a clean cup is a bad sign.
AMANDA: You know, maybe it also demonstrates how long you've been to see, like when you meet somebody and they're wearing, like, Carhartt but it's brand-new and ironed and you're like, "Okay." Right? Or, like, their boots or their gloves aren't scuffed up, it's like, "All right, buddy. Fine."
JULIA: Yeah. You're like, "Oh, you're new here."
AMANDA: Yeah, your Leatherman's shiny. Okay.
JULIA: All right. Here's another one of my favorites. This is a Finnish superstition that talks about bubbles in your coffee. So bubbles in your coffee is actually a sign that money may be coming your way.
AMANDA: Ooh, okay.
JULIA: So one version of the folklore says that if you set the coffee cup on the table in front of you, and the bubbles move towards you, you are about to have an unexpected windfall. But if the bubbles move away from you, you better be prepared to lose some cash.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: However, I did see another superstition in addition to this superstition, where if you scoop the bubbles out of the cup and eat them before you drink your coffee, you're guaranteed that good fortune is coming your way.
JULIA: How do you do that? I guess you just, like— with the little spoon—
AMANDA: You just like scoop them up gently?
JULIA: —you go — [slurps]
AMANDA: Oh, damn. Okay.
JULIA: And as long as they don't pop, good fortune.
AMANDA: They're very dexterous.
JULIA: Amanda, your morning routine with your coffee might also throw you for a loop, because in the Dominican Republic, it is super bad luck to drink your coffee while standing up.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: No cup of Joe on the go. You know?
AMANDA: I guess you have to, like, just, like, spend some time and be polite and, you know, take a minute?
JULIA: Yes, exactly. So the idea is that if you drink your coffee while standing up, your hopes and plans for the day will be disrupted. It'll basically throw your day off into chaos. And mostly this is a superstition that is a way to get people to slow down, to relax, to take your time in the morning, instead of rushing and going into the day with the wrong mindset.
AMANDA: I love that. And I think it's a great reason to sit down, actually enjoy it, chat with your mom, chat with your barista. I think that's great.
JULIA: Yes, I do too. I'm gonna finish off with some Icelandic coffee superstitions, because I know that it's gonna make a lot of bisexuals with their iced coffee, very happy.
AMANDA: Julia, it is currently 21 degrees Fahrenheit outside. That's negative something Celsius, and I drink cold brew on my walk to work today.
JULIA: Well, shouldn't have walked with it, first off.
AMANDA: You're right. Fuck.
JULIA: However, did you know that it is not a good idea to drink a steaming hot mug of coffee because the steam from coffee steals away your beauty?
AMANDA: My beauty?
JULIA: Your beauty.
AMANDA: Julia, I'm in my early 30s now. I gotta hang on to whatever I got. Sarcasm.
JULIA: You can't let them steal that. All right, another couple of coffee superstitions from Iceland. If you put sugar in before your cream and you're single, you won't be married for the next seven years.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: Don't do that. Don't do that.
AMANDA: Oh, shit.
JULIA: If you want to get married, the sugar has to go in after the cream.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: If you put two different spoons into your morning coffee—
AMANDA: I mean, why would you do that?
JULIA: —you're wishing bad luck on yourself. You're inviting chaos into your life.
AMANDA: It just sounds like you're inviting more dishes into your life, which—
JULIA: True.
AMANDA: —frankly, does seem chaotic.
JULIA: That's it, too. But Amanda, these are the people who came up with the idea that if you eat your coffee bubbles, you are bringing wealth into your life. So they are not anti-coffee, the Icelandic people. That's something at least.
AMANDA: I love, Julia, that Finland and Iceland are absolutely united in you see some bubbles, eat them up.
JULIA: Now, Amanda, food is such an important part of so many cultures, so it is no surprise that we have so many interesting and sometimes weird superstitions surrounding food. And I know there are so many more out there, so again, I want to do a second follow-up to this one. So if you have a favorite or particularly weird food superstition, be sure to write into us and tell us about it, spiritspodcast.com/contact or spiritspodcast@gmail.com. I'm just excited about food, and the new year.
AMANDA: I'm also excited about food. One of the things I'm doing this year is getting strong and so finding new ways to fuel myself with interesting and nutrient-dense food has been an exciting quest to my year, so I'm stoked to be by the end of this year, we can do another little roundup of good food traditions to start and end your year with.
JULIA: That would be nice. And remember to feed shrimp cocktail to your loved ones on New Year's Eve, we're starting it. We're gonna make it happen.
AMANDA: If you want to get pregnant and if you don't, don't do that.
JULIA: Don't do that. Don't do that.
AMANDA: Don't do that.
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
JULIA: Later, satyrs.
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