Episode 390: Your Urban Legends XCII - A Ghost’s Costume Change
/We scared each other quite a bit with this one. A ghost that says its name like a Pokemon, a very fitness-focused ghost, and the worst bug story we’ve ever heard in our entire lives.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, human remains, religious persecution, colonialism, natural disasters, and fire.
Strong Content Warning for Bugs/Skittering from 37:55 - 43:25
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends Green Flag by Paris Ray and the Crush
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at https://spiritspodcast.com/books
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: https://multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia, and it's urban legends time, baby. Here we go. We're back at it again.
AMANDA: Julia, choosing between my favorite types of episodes is— is like choosing between my favorite children, wherein there is one, but it's impolite to say it. And so I'm just gonna say I'm particularly excited to be here today. And hey, folks, if you've been thinking about writing in with a hometown urban legends, something you grew up hearing, something your family whispers around the campfire, something that you did in college and looking back, you were like, "Hey, holy shit. What's that all about?" We'd love to hear it. Write into us right now on your phone, spiritspodcast@gmail.com, or there's a nice contact form on our website, spiritspodcast.com.
JULIA: Here's the thing, I hate receiving emails, but receiving emails that are urban legends, that is the only good email that exists in the world.
AMANDA: You're right.
JULIA: So if you send us an email, I will actually be genuinely excited to see it.
AMANDA: Absolutely. We would love to hear it. And in fact, we're gonna give you a sampling of just why it is so fun and why we love receiving those emails so much. Today, where, Julia, we have more urban legends from our listeners, from the Conspiriters out there to share today.
JULIA: We do. We do, indeed. Do you want me to start with a— kind of fun one?
AMANDA: Always.
JULIA: Alright. Well, this is from Kay, they/them, and the subject is, WELCOME TO THE DEVIL'S HOPYARD. COME SEE THE DEVIL PLAYING THE FIDDLE.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: This is all in caps, too.
AMANDA: I'm already very excited about this one.
JULIA: I am as well. It's— it's a little on the shorter side, but I love a good, like, classic devil fiddle situation, so—
AMANDA: Always.
JULIA: Like as a child, I was weirdly obsessed with The Devil Went Down to Georgia song.
AMANDA: It's an incredible song with an incredible beat, and I also memorize every word, it's so good.
JULIA: You know what the thing is? I think that's what sparked my love for songs that tell stories.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Like, that's my favorite genre of music. I was like, "Yeah, tell me more about like this thing that happened in the past." And now you're relating it to yourself. Oh, my God, my favorite.
AMANDA: It's a real, like— in the ballad sea shanty school of songs, 100%.
JULIA: Well, Kay says, “Hey, y'all, my name is Kay. I've been listening to Spirits for a while now, and I've been loving y'all and all of your episodes. I've always wanted to send an urban legend to y'all, but the town that I live in is small and quiet.”
AMANDA: That's where the creepiest ones are.
JULIA: That tends to be where the creepiest ones are, to be fair.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: You're like, "Ah, yes. Town of 800, little old lady in the library." Also, classically, we have several skeletons and it's like, "What? That's not classic."
JULIA: You're like, "Yeah, you know, every library has human remains, right?"
AMANDA: No, no, no, no, no. No, they do not.
JULIA: I went to— this is complete aside. I went to a vintage store the other day with Jake, and we're waiting to, like, check out because he found a really cool jacket that looks exactly like Quint from Jaws' jacket, and we're definitely doing that—
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: —for Halloween this year, it's like decided now. But we're waiting in line and I look at the display, like, right next to the counter. And I was like— I elbowed Jake, I'm like, "Hey, baby, baby, do you want any unmarked human remains?" And I gestured to a bowl of just, like, pieces of I think human skulls.
AMANDA: What did the sign say?
JULIA: It said, "Unmarked human remains from medical research."
AMANDA: And then, anything else?
JULIA: And then the price, and I don't remember what the price was.
AMANDA: Oh, boy. So, Julia, if you tell me that— like that haunted painting whose twin is definitely a portal to another dimension.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: You're telling me you brought it home? I'm— I'm gonna — I'm gonna seriously rethink revisiting you.
JULIA: Yeah, no, Jake— Jake was a hard no on the unmarked human remains, and I was also just doing it for a bit, so it's— it's okay.
AMANDA: Oh. I mean, I guess the medical research human remains have to go somewhere, but a vintage store/like a pretty ashtray in my curio cabinet is— is not quite what I pictured.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: I don't know why that's a particular line for me, but I found out a new line today.
JULIA: No, no, no. Hey, listen, we're always redefining our lines, right?
AMANDA: Alright, back to Kay.
JULIA: Alright. “The town I live in is small and quiet, but while listening to an episode at school, my mind wandered, and I finally found an urban legend to send to you all, so now introducing, Devil's Hopyard: Home of the Fiddle playing Devil.”
AMANDA: Excellent start.
JULIA: “Found in East Haddam, Connecticut, Devil's Hopyard is a beautiful 860-acre state park that I like to visit regularly if I can.”
AMANDA: Oh, I thought for certain this is a brewery.
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: Devil's Hopyard sounds exactly like a brewery.
JULIA: If you are looking for the name of your brewery person who is listening to this podcast and thinking about starting a brewery, Devil's Hopyard, pretty good.
AMANDA: Pretty good. Connecticut, not a bad place for a brewer.
JULIA: No, not at all. I'm sure Connecticut's full of breweries.
AMANDA: Yeah. Love it.
JULIA: “So getting into the history behind this land, in the mid-1600s, Puritans settled into their surroundings. And with Puritans being incredibly Christian, they believe that the devil himself could be lurking there, even in the most quiet of places.”
AMANDA: That's a big part of Puritanism. It's like—
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: —your house isn't clean enough, like you're— you're kind of asking the devil to come in.
JULIA: Yeah. It's— I mean, the Puritans were, like, creating the Church of England was not enough, we need to go even further, so—
AMANDA: Even harder, baby.
JULIA: Even harder. “So at the beginning of these trails, there are these giant 60-foot falls called Chapman Falls. The Puritans were terrified of these falls because of the legends that surrounded them. According to their legends, they believe that the devil sat on top of these falls and played his fiddle."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Meanwhile, at the bottom of the falls, his minions were said to brew potions. Why? No fucking clue, man. Another myth is that the devil got his tail wet while on the falls and got so angry that he stomped and burned holes beneath his hooves. This created these perfectly cylindrical holes that range in size and depth, but were always a perfect circle.”
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: “Of course, there is a scientific reason, but this was just the Puritans trying to make sense of their new environment. Native Americans were also known to perform sacred rituals along those falls. So these legends could have spawned from white people's ignorance to Native American cultures and practices.”
AMANDA: Probably.
JULIA: Which is usually the case. “For my experience, this story is short and happened a while back, four to five years ago, so I don't remember all of it, but I will try my best. I was hiking with my mom, brother and sister, both of which are older than me. When I spotted this sort of tunnel, looked like an old-fashioned sewer built with stone. And me being the spontaneous adventure that I am, I ran towards the tunnel.”
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now at this point, Kay mentioned being in school, this is four to five years ago. I'm imagining a spunky, 12-year-old, but I'm not entirely sure.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: I could be wrong. I— could be older, could be younger. Who can say? “So sprints towards the tunnel. When I reached the tunnel, I felt I almost went back in time. There was a stream running down the sides of the tunnel with a damp, dark feeling that surrounded me when I entered. It felt old and worn, but familiar in some way, like a shirt that I had lost and then found again. I've always liked old places. They feel more familiar and comfortable than cities, but this place felt the same way, and I loved it. When my mom and siblings caught up to me, they scolded me because I was 10"— I should've read ahead a little bit more. "Because I was 10, and had a habit of running off, and not responding to calls when it was time to go back to the car.”
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: This is also an 860-acre state park, so running off and getting lost in there, that's going to be manhunt situations, and not like— you know, just like, "Oh, yeah, look, across the pond, there they are."
AMANDA: Yeah. Or like, "Oh, my kid is lost in Disney. Alright, we'll— we'll find them."
JULIA: “Well, Devil's hopyard has stories of people hearing whispers, disembodied laughter, and orbs, I've never experienced anything like that. But I have always thought that something was a bit off or different there. I always found myself being drawn back, and I like to think that there may be some unidentified cryptid or something like that, but that might just be my imagination running wild. I hope the story made you laugh or maybe wonder what the fuck the Puritans were on about. Again, thank you so much for making this podcast and many others. They've been an anchor when I get overwhelmed or overstimulated. I've enjoyed the urban legends episodes the most, and they remind me of how we can be so vastly different but we can still connect and bond, even if we don't know each other. Sending much love from Connecticut, Kay.”
AMANDA: Aw, thanks, Kay. I think it's lovely that you—you feel like this environment speaks to you so much. And I think with your, you know, cell phone and a flashlight, and telling people where you are, you should absolutely spend lots of time there.
JULIA: Absolutely. I agree. It's also been a couple of years since Kay sent that in, so I definitely, like, think that they are older and wiser, and now bring a flashlight and maybe, like, you know, check their GPS on their phone in case they get lost.
AMANDA: Very good.
JULIA: Now, Amanda, what have you got for me, hmm? Hmm?
AMANDA: Let me— well, Julia, this past urban legend reminded me of the Giant's Causeway.
JULIA: Ah.
AMANDA: The, like, geological feature in County Antrim, Northern Ireland that has like hexagonal columns of basalt from, like, extruding spaetzle or a rice noodle through an extruder—
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —from a volcanic eruption many, many millions of years ago. And so when I looked through the list of urban legends I brought up today, Neve, Irish name is what stood out to me.
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: So Neve has written into us with an email titled, Creepy Ghost/Demon Child, Poltergeists and fitness ghosts. Kind of a nice little roundup.
JULIA: Oh, I— I have so many questions about the fitness ghost. I cannot wait.
AMANDA: Neve writes, “Hey, Spirits, I've been listening for a few years now, and finally plucked up the courage to send in my urban legends. Now, these ghosts come from the college, Australian equivalent of dorms, that I used to stay in while attending university in a rural town in Australia.”
JULIA: Okay. Alright.
AMANDA: “The first of these paranormal experiences is the haunting of my friend's dorm room during my first year of college in the second semester, while several of us were going to enter her room in the middle of the day, I might add. Once we opened the door, several of us saw a dark, creepy child-sized shadow crouching beside her bed.”
JULIA: Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Absolutely not. Hate it.
AMANDA: “Freaked out. We immediately shut the door, Completely noped out. After confirming that each of us, of which there were four, did in fact see the entity. We opened the door again, and the figure was gone.”
JULIA: Now, we— we've discussed on the podcast before the terrifying nature of understanding that other people saw the thing that you saw, and now there's no denying it.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: This is one of those situations where I simply would not have asked my friends if they saw it. I would have opened the door, being like, "Uh-uh." Closed it again. And being like, "Maybe we should come back later. Like, maybe we should just like— I don't know, like, go get some lunch or something like that."
AMANDA: Yeah, but then when you write in to Spirits, and then you say, "My friends and I never discussed it." We'd be like, "What the hell?"
JULIA: Yes. Yes, that's true.
AMANDA: But it's very, very understandable. Yeah. This is particularly spooky because, you know, we'll often talk about, like, you know, feeling or seeing a presence in the liminal state between sleep and wake.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —which, to me, gives plausible deniability where I could be like, "Oh, I was"— you know, kind of that thing where, like, you jerk when you're falling asleep, you know?
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Like, "Oh, it was just— it was my brain misfiring as I fell asleep." No, no. Clear daylight.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: With witnesses.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Terrifying.
JULIA: Not good. Not good.
AMANDA: Neve continues, “Apparently, my friend did not sleep in her own room that night because it was just too spooky.” Fair.
JULIA: Yeah. You know, I was also thinking like, is a college dorm room, or the equivalent in this case, a liminal space? Because you usually only occupy it for, like, four months maybe before you move on to your next place or, like, your next semester, or whatever.
AMANDA: I would argue that it is, because any place— I don't know about your dorm, Julia, but the ones I lived in had, like, blue plastic mattresses. They were like—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —wrapped in, you know, industrial grade plastic and, you know, maybe a couple inches thick at the best.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And so I think anywhere— with, like, a blue plastic mattress, anywhere meant to have, like, high turnover, lots of people passing through, you know, hallways, transit hubs, hospitals, like even schools to a certain extent, you know, you can sort of like picture in your mind the sped up montage in a TV show of, like, the crowd going by so fast just like a blur, and so that, to me, gives— gives ghost.
JULIA: Yeah, no, I think you're— I think you're on the money there, for sure, for sure. I was also thinking like that's why the hauntings we get about, like, day schools, like elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, like where you're only there for a certain amount of hours in a day are particularly haunted because the idea of like it existing at nighttime is so odd.
AMANDA: 100%. Julia, your mom's a teacher. Were you ever with her when one of her students recognized her outside of school?
JULIA: No, because my mom did not teach in the town that we lived in, so that made it a little easier to not get spotted on the regular by her students.
AMANDA: I remember seeing one of my teachers over the summer in like a bookstore or something, and just being so embarrassed. Like my—my goal was just— my, like, face flamed and I was so embarrassed and I, like, hid in a different section, and, you know, here we are.
JULIA: It's like seeing them out in the wild. You're like, "I shouldn't be able to see this."
AMANDA: Something's wrong here.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Alright, back to Neve. “We tried our best to cleanse the room with candles, plus we set off the fire alarm. It was later clear that we were not successful, as later that year, my friend woke up around two in the morning to her bed shaking violently, and the top of her tin of Milo chocolate powder bursting off.”
JULIA: Oh, no, that's gonna be so messy to clean up.
AMANDA: So hard to clean. That's why the mattress is plastic.
JULIA: Oh, God.
AMANDA: “Whether the creepy child thing was back or it was another poltergeist, we couldn't be sure. Safe to say when asked whether my friend wanted the room back for the next year, she vehemently refused, and nothing paranormal has happened to her since leaving that room.”
JULIA: That is fair. And I'm glad that that is the case where it was probably just the room and it wasn't you.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: It's bad when the haunting starts attaching to you.
AMANDA: 100%. “The other college ghost that inhabits the building is named Topper Runner. A bit of background before I get into it. Because of tornado damage to our colleges original building before my first year, our college moved into its current building and the college that used to live there combined and moved next door.”
JULIA: This is going to sound so weird, but I never—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —considered that Australia gets tornadoes.
AMANDA: Big continent.
JULIA: Yeah. But now, I'm just like, "Oh, no. It's already so dusty and— and— and whatnot there." I'm like, "It's so terrible."
AMANDA: Are they like bigger and worse, and filled with spiders? Maybe. Australians, write in. Let us know.
JULIA: Oh, no, Amanda.
AMANDA: Onto the spooky bit, “During the night, occasionally, people on multiple floors can hear running outside their doors, just like how a person would sound running down the hall."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "However, this running is not accompanied by any breathing, for example. And when you open the door to check, there's no one there. This ghost was named Topper Runner by the previous college residents before our college moved in. It's named as such because it runs from the top floor of the rightmost side of the building, down through the middle floor and through the bottom floor of the leftmost side of the building.”
JULIA: That's such an Australian fucking nickname. That's the most Australian nickname I've ever heard. I was like, "Oh, Topper Runner. Okay, it runs." I'm like, "What's the topper part?" I'm like, "It stops— it starts at the top floor." Yeah.
AMANDA: It really is.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. Cool. Good to know.
AMANDA: “I haven't heard any explanation or guesses as to why he's there, but he seems mostly harmless. Just kind of spooky late at night.”
JULIA: Is— this is the fitness ghost. I'm realizing now this is the fitness ghost.
AMANDA: The fitness ghost.
JULIA: Oh, that's— that's so funny. Imagine a ghost really wants to keep the cardio up after he died. That's just so funny.
AMANDA: Yep. It's— it's really good. Also, yeah, I mean, I— I guess— obviously, Australia has seasons, but you know, the American imagining of Australia is always warm, so like, why wouldn't Topper Runner run outside? Like, why is he running inside of the dorms?
JULIA: Because I guess he's just— you know, he's stuck in the dorms. We— we constantly are seeing these ghosts that have to occupy certain spaces. Maybe like— maybe the building's layout has changed as well.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: And now he's, like, really into this idea of like, "There's long hallways now, I can really, like, get my sprints in."
AMANDA: Yes. That's— that's very fair. I remember as a kid when the— when, like, they'd redo the pavement in my neighborhood, and I just be like, "I gotta ride my bike on that, baby." Like— like, untouched peanut butter, like, "I— I have to do this."
JULIA: It's so smooth.
AMANDA: It's so smooth.
JULIA: I love it. I love it so much.
AMANDA: Anyway, thank you, Neve, and please do write in with any more college ghost stories.
JULIA: Yes, please. College ghost stories, I think, are among my favorite. Again, because of that kind of liminal nature of college, it's like, "I'm going to spend, you know, like two to four years here," let's assume. And in that time, like how many other generations have passed through.
AMANDA: 100%
JULIA: It's— it's— it's just— it's rife for urban legends, it just is.
AMANDA: Rife for urban legends, plus a lot of people, meeting new people, going to new places, reading new things, and presenting themselves, and figuring out others' narratives. There's just— oh, there's so much there.
JULIA: Yeah. And usually, the first time that you're living on your own without the comfort of, like, your parents and stuff like that, or your guardians—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —and like that is like a really big step. And maybe that's why so many, like, weird things are not just explained away.
AMANDA: Exactly. Yeah, you are on your own, but there is some structure, there is an authority figure, they're not your parents, so it's— it's a good time.
JULIA: Yeah. It's a good time.
AMANDA: Maybe we'll try to do a back to school, high school, college—
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: —ghost edition in the fall, Julia. How about that?
JULIA: Ooh, I would like that. That would be really cool.
AMANDA: Alright, folks, gotta write in.
JULIA: Write in about your universities, your colleges. I'll even take high schools and— and elementary and whatnot.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah. Secondary school. Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: Schools of all kinds, please.
AMANDA: Thank you.
JULIA: Well, Amanda, why don't we very quickly go grab our refill? And then we can get back to these urban legends.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
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JULIA: Hey, this is Julia, and welcome to the refill. Before I thank our patrons, I just want to say, hey, have you considered checking out our Patreon at patreon.com/spiritspodcast? There's some really cool rewards there. I want to highlight our $8 tier. It is awesome because you get recipe cards every episode. And if you're listening to this, that means you're not paying for the $8 tier because those are ad-free episodes. And if you enjoy just getting right back to the action with Spirits, check that out. I also want to stress, hey, if you don't want to pay monthly for your Patreon subscription, I know sometimes I don't want to get charged monthly, we do offer an annual subscription for the Patreon that actually gets you two free months. So you can sign up, and only pay for 10 months upfront and get the full year. It's pretty cool. That's patreon.com/spiritspodcast. And thank you so much to our supporting producer-level patrons like, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Arianna, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, and Sarah. As well as our legend-level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Jeremiah, Michael, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. And you could join their ranks once again by going to patreon.com/spiritspodcast. And hey, it's time for me to give you a recommendation, and this week, a little selfishly, I have a recommendation for you. It is the song Green Flag by Paris Ray and the Crush. Yes, this is my husband's band. Yes, I really think that the song is extremely good. It's such a summer bop. It is fun. It is a little sexy. It's about how the hottest thing a person can do is be in therapy, and I think you would really like it, and you can find it on Spotify or wherever you stream your music. That is Green Flag by Paris Ray, and it is the full first song by Paris Ray and the Crush, and I am very proud. Again, Green Flag. And of course, I have to tell you what's going on here at Multitude, and have you checked out Join the Party yet? Join the Party is an actual play podcast with tangible worlds, genre-pushing storytelling. and collaborators who make each other laugh each and every week. DM Eric and players, Amanda, that's our Amanda, Brandon, and me Julia, welcome everyone to the table from lifetime tabletop RPG players to folks who have never touched a tabletop RPG before. You can hop into our current campaign, which is a pirate story set in a world of plant and bug people, or you can marathon through our completed stories like the Camp-Paign, which is a creepy summer camp using Monster of the Week as our game. Campaign Two is a modern superhero game and Campaign One is kind of a classic high fantasy story with a really gay twist. And once a month, we released the Afterparty where we answer your questions about the show and how we play the game. So what are you waiting for? Pull up a chair and join the party. Search for Join the Party in your podcast app or go to jointhepartypod.com. We are sponsored this week by our OG, Shaker & Spoon. Shaker & Spoon is a subscription cocktail service that helps you learn how to make handcrafted cocktails right at home. If you are tired of going out to your bar and spending way too much money on a craft cocktail, you can make it at home for much cheaper. Every Shaker & Spoon box comes with enough ingredients to make three different cocktail recipes, four of each of those cocktail recipes developed by world class mixologist. All you need to do is buy one bottle of that month's spirit and you'll have all you need to make 12 drinks at home. At just $40 to $50 per month plus the cost of the bottle, it is a super cost-effective way to enjoy craft cocktails. And the best part, you can skip or cancel boxes at any time. So maybe you're not a whiskey fan, and this month is whiskey, you can skip that one at any time. It's really great. And then you can pick it back up again when it's gin, or tequila, or whatever kind of liquor you like. Invite some friends over, class up your nightcaps, or be the best houseguest of all time with your Shaker & Spoon box. Get $20 off your first box at shakerandspoon.com/cool. That's shakerandspoon.com/cool And now, let's get back to the show.
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JULIA: Amanda, we're back, and I love to share kind of what we've been drinking when it comes to the Urban Legends Episodes. And I have unlocked, I think, the drink of the summer for me.
AMANDA: Oh, big news. What is it?
JULIA: A Hibiscus Mezcal Margarita.
AMANDA: Stop, Julia. My ultimate— my ultimate drink. Perhaps my favorite drink of all time, certainly my favorite summer drink is hibiscus iced tea with lime, with some Mezcal. I love that for you.
JULIA: Here's the thing, I use the Smith and company Big Hibiscus tea, and I just like— rather than like making the tea, I put the tea bag and let it steep in the simple syrup that I'm making.
AMANDA: Oh, boy.
JULIA: And then just regular Margarita specks with Mezcal instead of tequila. It is incredible.
AMANDA: Well, sign me up for one of those next time I'm over—
JULIA: Oh, hell yeah.
AMANDA: —because that sounds perfect.
JULIA: You got it. You got it. What have you been drinking Amanda?
AMANDA: Eric's birthday was in early May, and while we're not like huge summer people, we— we like, you know, the— the chillier months more. One of the best parts of summer is summer edition beers.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: And so I contacted a beer distributor in our neighborhood—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —to get him a case of Genesee Brewing's Ruby Red Kolsch.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: The— the beer that we have relied on, Julia, in the past to get from us— to get for us from Long Island. But this place was super nice, and ordered a case of it, and I'm picking it up tomorrow, and I am so excited to just— it's so crushable. It's tart. It is grapefruit, which I think maybe my favorite artificial flavor, you know?
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: It's just— it's so perfect. And our friend Heddy got us these like little beverage chillers, like a Koozie, but it's like a insulated mug that you put the cup in— or you put the— the can in it, and so it just— it stays so cold and it's so crushable. And God, I love the Ruby Red Kolsch.
JULIA: Yeah. You were telling me about this, like, beer distributor near you. You were like, "Yeah, I never like thought to go there because like they had weird hours. It's down by the dump. It's like— it's all this stuff." I'm like, "Amanda, those are the best places."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: "They can get you anything. They can get you anything. That's why their hours are so weird."
AMANDA: They really can get me anything. Yeah, it's amazing. And then he sent me like a janky-looking payment link, where he was like, "Yeah, yeah. Just pay me, like, the $23, like, online and then I'll call you when it's ready." And I'm like, "Okay, I guess this is— this is how all commerce used to be, but it feels so, I don't know, personal."
JULIA: Yeah. You're like, "Please don't steal my identity when I pay you for this case of beer."
AMANDA: Like for $23, I'll allow it, but no, he'd call me and it's— it's— it's there.
JULIA: Alright. Good, good. I love that. I love that for you. Now, you know, like anytime you need, like, a specialty beer, you can unlock it through this guy.
AMANDA: Oh, my God, right?
JULIA: Got a guy for that.
AMANDA: Got a guy for that. Julia, tell me— what— what other urban legends have stood out to you recently?
JULIA: Well, I have one in here that is somewhat of a generational haunting.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Would you like to hear about that?
AMANDA: Um, am I prepared? Yes, I'm ready.
JULIA: Okay. So this is from Scottt, he/him, an— an extra T for Scottt, which I kind of love. The triple T for Scottt.
AMANDA: Three Ts?
JULIA: Three Ts.
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: So Scottt has titled this email, “The lady that says Helen.”
AMANDA: If this is a ghost, Julia, that walks around saying, "Helen," I don't know what I'm gonna do.
JULIA: Well, emotionally prepare yourself.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: “Hi, Spirits Podcast. I'm a new listener, but I love what I'm hearing so far. I just listened to your most recent urban legends episode and figured that I would tell you my story about Helen.”
AMANDA: Now if she— if her name is Helen and like a Pokemon, she walks around saying Helen, I don't know if that's better or worse. That's my guess.
JULIA: “A bit of background, crazy dreams run in my family. Multi-night storylines, recurring characters, and waking up exhausted because it feels like I spent the night living a second life are all very normal in my family.”
AMANDA: Oh, shit.
JULIA: And now the story. "When I was eight, my family moved into a brand-new house. As part of the decorating my mom found two antique mirrors that my great, great grandmother had brought with her from Ireland in the 1800s.”
AMANDA: Oh, no. Julia, those are gonna be full of lead, and also, I love an antique mirror, it's a great decorating tool, but good God, there's gonna be a ghost in there.
JULIA: “Much to my chagrin, she hung them in my bedroom.”
AMANDA: Tough. Tough.
JULIA: It's real tough.
AMANDA: I bet your mom has great taste, but that's very tough.
JULIA: “Well, it was bad enough that they took up space where I wanted to put a Tom Brady poster.”
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: “The worst part was the sudden appearance of a new recurring character in my dreams, Helen. I called her Helen because that is the only thing she would ever say to me.”
AMANDA: No, no.
JULIA: “She was always dressed in different clothes, both modern and antique, would appear as both a malevolent and benevolent character, and would even occasionally make a specter-esque appearance in sleep paralysis episodes.”
AMANDA: It has never occurred to me that ghosts could have a wardrobe, that ghosts could be so well-established in this creepy Irish mirror from the 1800s that she could go back, costume change, and come back in a different role in your next dream.
JULIA: It might be one of those things where like— I— I think I've talked about this on the podcast before, but like I very much have dreams where, like, I switch like point of views, I'm different characters. I'll do like different genders, different—
AMANDA: You're— you're like directing a movie in your dreams, yeah.
JULIA: I— I am constantly directing a movie in my dreams.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: It's very possible that Scottt also has a very, like, active imagination because apparently, it runs in the family and stuff like that. And while the, like, specter of Helen is always in the dreams, maybe Scottt's imagination is also casting her in different roles and different outfits and— like in order to make sense of her within the dream that he's having.
AMANDA: Yeah, it's like that— what I'm realizing is probably also an urban legend, but like I've heard this truism that you— your brain can't make up faces and so all the faces in your dreams are like cast from faces you've seen before.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: It's that but all Helen. It's— it's like—it's like my favorite Pokemon Ditto, where— where— where Ditto can be lots of forms but always with a Ditto face.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And somehow your— your Helen is like your primary background character.
JULIA: I think that might be it. I think we might be, you know, in the field of the—
AMANDA: Closing in on us, yeah.
JULIA: —realm of possibility. But I'm also—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —not dismissing the fact that Helen is probably a ghost that is haunting your dreams.
AMANDA: So scary.
JULIA: “So however, whether hero or villain, all she would ever say is Helen.”
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: “Eventually I moved out of my folks' house and Helen slowly went away.” That's terrifying that Helen—
AMANDA: That's the worst—
JULIA: —Helen maintained after the fact.
AMANDA: That's the worst option, Julia, because it's not like Helen was limited to the mirror, which would be also scary, but we understand. And it's not like Helen stayed with you, which would mean either she anchored to you or, you know, your brain was, you know, inspired in some way and started casting Helen. No, no. Helen tried, and then failed bad.
JULIA: Helen tried to stay. Helen was, like, gripping on like a—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —like a bug on a windshield.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: I hate that, I hate that image. Why did I say that? That's terrible. “So eventually, moved out of my folks' house and Helen slowly went away. Then the pandemic hit. March of 2020, I temporarily moved home to help out my family. Part of that was babysitting my four-year-old nephew. Because of the limited space, his bed was put in the same room as mine.”
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: “The very first night, around 3:00 AM, I hear a little voice go, "Uncle Scottt, can you make the woman be quiet?"
AMANDA: Uh-uh. Uh-uh.
JULIA: “Me, half asleep and assuming he was dreaming asked, 'What woman?" The woman what says Helen.”
AMANDA: Ahhh!!! Not the woman what says Helen.
JULIA: I think I made it worse too by doing a creepy child voice and for that, I apologize. Scottt finishes with, "I nearly leapt 10 feet out of bed. I got the little guy back to sleep. And the first thing the next day, I put those mirrors in the basement.”
AMANDA: Thank you, yes.
JULIA: There have been no Helen sighting since. And that's the end of the email.
AMANDA: Short and sweet, Scottt.
JULIA: Short and sweet.
AMANDA: Oh, baby.
JULIA: I'm glad you liked that one. What have you got for me? Is it— is it as good as Helen?
AMANDA: I thought I was going to end us on a very creepy note, so let's— let's see how it stacks up. First, I want to give you a short and sweet one, Julia, from Sarah K., she/her, titled, A Ghost did me a Solid.
JULIA: Ooh, okay. We like when ghosts are doing solids and not scaring four-year-old boys.
AMANDA: So Sarah writes, “Hello, Conspiriters, longtime listener, first time writer- inner and team investigator, by the way.”
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: “So I consider myself a skeptic. I'm an atheist and generally believe that experiences we deem paranormal are usually those that we, as of yet, have no ability to define. That being said, I think a ghost did me a solid once.”
JULIA: Oh, okay. Cool.
AMANDA: “On a specific date, September 16th, 2021.”
JULIA: Okay, great.
AMANDA: “I was on vacation in Cape Cod at a rental house in Eastham Mass."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "It seemed to me that the house was built around 1900, but probably renovated in the 1990s. It was certainly a nice house, but didn't give off any weird vibes.”
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: “My room in the house was rather dark, having eaves and only one window. But during renovations, the homeowners had installed a tunnel skylight just above the bed." I never heard of those either. "It's a tube that contains mirrors about a foot in diameter, installed between the ceiling and a roof too high up for traditional skylight, so it bounces sunlight down to help illuminate the room.”
JULIA: Oh, that's not what I thought that was, but okay. Scary. Don't like that.
AMANDA: “Although the tunnel was not an active participant in today's haunting, it gave the room a very ethereal vibe even at night.”
JULIA: I'm just looking up with a tunnel skylight looks like now, because I'm— I'm so curious. Oh, there's a house near me that has one of these because I've seen it. I'm like, "What is that weird dome on the top of their house?" I thought it was like a weird, like, bird viewer or something. I don't know.
AMANDA: Yeah, it's kind of like a periscope.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Interesting. Interesting.
AMANDA: You know?
JULIA: Okay, cool.
AMANDA: Interesting. Okay. “So during the first night I arrived, I had a nightmare. Having to listen to other people's dreams is boring, so I'll be brief.” I beg to differ, Sarah K.
JULIA: It's not. Unless you have boring dreams, which we don't know.
AMANDA: I mean, like me and—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —it's— you know? “I was watching a scene, as if watching a movie, but I knew that was real, in which people at a bar were asking Eddie Murphy to kiss Janelle Monae.”
JULIA: Okay, interesting. Weird.
AMANDA: Cool. “She was staying still and his face was getting closer to her face, which— or an expression as if to say, "I don't care for this, and I like to go away."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "Understandably, this distressed me in my dream. As the viewer, I wanted to make him stop or help Janelle get out of the situation. I would try to close my eyes in the dream, but when I opened them, my view of her discomfort had zoomed in.”
JULIA: I don't like that.
AMANDA: Julia, have you ever turned blinking into zooming in your dreams? Because that's some like Doctor Who shit.
JULIA: Um, I don't know. I don't know. Again, we've— we've established I'm a director in my dreams but also an actor, so I don't know if I've, like, done that—
AMANDA: You're not the— you're not the—
JULIA: —before.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: I— I constantly have superpowers, though, in my dreams, so it's very possible that that happened.
AMANDA: It's a real Bradley Cooper situation for you, where you are the writer, director, and producer.
JULIA: Yes, that is true.
AMANDA: “So quite suddenly, while the dream is still going, I heard a disembodied voice, gender neutral, soothing, quiet, calm, that said, 'Good morning.' I knew this voice wasn't a part of the nightmare, but yet I was still in it. Thinking this was my mom who had rented the house and was coming to wake me up to start the day, I blinked my eyes repeatedly and began to wake up.”
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: “I was lying on my left side, the room was still very dark, only a small amount of pre-dawn light reaching down the tunnel skylight. I tried to get my bearings, being on vacation and away from home, I was, of course, out of sorts. That's when I felt a hand on my head and a hand on my elbow. The hands didn't move, they press gently, and the voice spoke again, 'Good morning,' in the same tone at the same volume. And I knew then the voice was not my mother's. I lay there very still, holding my breath to better hear, but there were no footsteps, no creaking, no breathing, no rustling of sheets or clothes. My parents were still asleep down the hall. I just decided to murmur, 'Thank you,' believing that whatever this was had sensed my distress and pulled me out of the nightmare. I reached for my phone, and at 5:41 AM, recorded this event in a text file. It was a lovely house and the remainder of our stay was very mundane. I made sure to record the incident in the guestbook before I left for future guests to reference.”
JULIA: Oh, no. I'm sure the owner was not happy about that. They're like, "Alright, we had to rip this page out that mentions a ghost."
AMANDA: Yeah. Like five stars, also paranormal experience, like, "What?"
JULIA: Excuse me?
AMANDA: We said it before, that will be a draw for some people, but—
JULIA: I know.
AMANDA: —I — if I didn't— if it wasn't marketed to me, and then I was flipping through a guest book, and then someone's, like, really enjoyed the haunting in the— in the blue room, I'd be like, "Excuse me?"
JULIA: Fucking what? You're like, "Oh, yeah, great breakfast served, very comfortable sheets, got haunting in the blue room, I would be like, "Ahhh!"
AMANDA: Sarah also includes a PS, “If you choose to read this on the podcast, I can send you a sound file of how the voice said, 'Good morning.'" I'm assuming Sarah, like, reenacted it that morning.
JULIA: I was gonna be like, "Sarah, if you have footage recording of a ghost, you have to tell us that—"
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: "—ahead of time."
AMANDA: But, yeah, Sarah, we're certainly curious to hear it.
JULIA: Yeah, yes. A 100%, a 100%. And now, Amanda, do you have one more chunky one for us here?
AMANDA: Yes, Julia. I have one that I think is going to cause a lot of discussion. And it also relates a good deal to nightmares, which we have been talking about. So this is from Dreamer, she/her, and it's titled, My Childhood Nightmare.
JULIA: Okay, alright.
AMANDA: “I was listening to a recent urban legends episode that included some stories about a listener's experiences at summer camp.” Must be the one with Mischa. “In the roundabout way my brain works, it reminded me of a nightmare I had as a child. I thought you would maybe not enjoy it, but it's definitely creepy, so here it is."
JULIA: Oh.
AMANDA: Now, Julia, Dreamer has specified that they want a stage narration voice for the following paragraph.
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: I'm gonna just send that to you. Just check your Slack right there to read, please.
JULIA: I got this. “It's dark, I'm tired. My mom holds me as we come back from the car. Floatingly, she brings me down the stairs to our back door. The stairwell is even darker, and it takes her a moment to open the door, but she does, everything is still. My eyes begin to adjust, then the floor starts moving, writhing.”
AMANDA: Thank you so much.
JULIA: I realized I was doing like an ASMR voice. I'm like, "Do I have— can I make some money doing ASMR stuff"
AMANDA: Dreamer continues, “Classic nightmare, right? Creepy setting, perfect stillness, and then suddenly things moving that shouldn't be moving. As I grew older, the fear faded, but I always remember this weird nightmare. It's so floaty, but so clear in my memory. I rarely remember my dreams, and when I do, they rarely make narrative sense, so this one was really an outlier for lots of reasons. A few years ago, I was talking to my mom, and the subject of dreams came up, and I told her about this one. Her mouth fell open, and she just stared at me and then said, 'No, that happened.'”
JULIA: What the fuck are you talking about?
AMANDA: So, Julia, this is where I'm going to pause and I'm going to challenge you. This has a logical explanation, we're ending with a logical explanation here. What happened?
JULIA: I guess like content warning for bugs and stuff, but I'm picturing, like, maggots, floor of maggots.
AMANDA: My first thought was like—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —flooding was there, you know? Or like a burst pipe or something that, you know, made the floor move—
JULIA: The— the term writhing makes me think bugs, so that's where my head's at.
AMANDA: Julia, you are— you are right. And if folks—
JULIA: Oh.
AMANDA: —are sensitive to this subject—
JULIA: Gross.
AMANDA: —we love you, we'll see you next week.
JULIA: So fast forward, like five minutes maybe. I don't know. We'll see.
AMANDA: Yeah. We're about to get into it. “So my mom went on to explain that our dog Merlin brought fleas into the house. We all had to leave while the exterminator worked on it. So we went to visit my grandma in Florida. We did this a lot when I was young. We drove down to Florida from DC. It was a 12 to 16-hour drive, and we usually drove because it was more convenient than flying and then we could also bring Merlin. We usually did it in one long day, but then the drive was done."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "We gotten back from the trip in the middle of the night. My dad was going to start getting things from the car and my mom went to bring me inside and turn on the outside lights. There were two entrances to our basement condo, the back door via the kitchen down a flight of stairs, and the front door which opened into the living room from a common courtyard at ground level.”
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: “She just happened to be closer to the back door, so that's where she went in.”
JULIA: Okay. And this is the kitchen back door, right?
AMANDA: Kitchen back door.
JULIA: Gotcha.
AMANDA: Again, if you don't want to hear about bugs, we'll see you. "The extermination hadn't taken. The fleas—"
JULIA: Oh, no.
AMANDA: "—had multiplied and were covering the ground."
JULIA: Oh, no.
AMANDA: “Once you open the door, they were startled ,and started moving at once, so it really did look like the floor had started moving.”
JULIA: I— so here's the thing, I'm not like super afraid of bugs. Like, I can deal with bugs. I'm usually the one that scoops the bugs in our household because Jake has a— a problem with bugs. If I walked into a house and saw a floor that was writhing covered in them, I would scream, and I'm not a screamer, but that's bad. That's very bad.
AMANDA: Dreamer's mom agrees. “My mom told me she slammed the door, ran back to the car, and we stayed with my uncle who lived 30 minutes away until the exterminator actually guaranteed that all the fleas were gone.”
JULIA: I would actually— I'd be like, "You're going back. I'm not paying you again. Do your job."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Oh, I would have been so mad. I would have gone to full Karen on that exterminator. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
AMANDA: “I was about one and a half, not quite two, and this dream is actually my first memory.”
JULIA: Oh, no, traumatizing.
AMANDA: “That's the story of my real childhood nightmare.”
JULIA: I have to wonder how Dreamer feels about bugs now—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —because I can't imagine it's a good relationship.
AMANDA: “Well, props to my parents for having the courage to go back to that condo after the exterminator came back and did the job again. I'm not entirely convinced adult me wouldn't have just burned the place down, but we lived there until I was eight. And would you believe? My parents' dogs always get their flea meds on time now.”
JULIA: I would think so now. Yep. That's a— that's a learning lesson. That's a life lesson learned.
AMANDA: Yeah. “Stay creepy, stay cool. And most importantly, stay flea-free, Dreamer.”
JULIA: Amanda, I think I have one more for us, just to— just to close this out—
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: —on a— on a spooky note. Now, Amanda, I think I got one more to close this out on a particularly spooky one.
AMANDA: Good, because I can't end on that image. Thank you.
JULIA: Yes. You're welcome. Alright. So this is from Scorpio Amber and ze titles this email, I'd Forgotten About the Ghosts.
AMANDA: Oh, very good.
JULIA: “Hi, spooky Spirits hosts, longtime listener, first time urban legendser. Currently enjoying the most recent episode with Jeffrey Cranor.” Date is a little old on this one. “And you mentioned running low on urban legends, and this reminded me that I'd written a short piece about visiting my childhood home that you might find suitable.”
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: “It's not a spine-chilling is my experience with the shadow being in my first apartment, but I haven't been brave enough to write that one down yet, so old ghosts it is.”
AMANDA: Hey, we've had enough spine-chilling today. Thank you.
JULIA: We can have that in the future if you do feel brave enough to sit down and write it.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: I would love that. That would be great. Ze continues, “I've lived in town long enough that I'd forgotten the ghosts. As I step out of the car, saying hello to the cat that trots towards me, I'm surprised by the way the light from the house seems to shrink back from the corners of the yard. The sounds of traffic are dim masked by the hiss of the swollen river down the way. I feel the hairs stand up on the back of my neck as I turn my back to the dense undergrowth to walk inside. I find myself small again, repeating the mantra of my childhood in my mind, 'There is nothing here that wants to hurt you.' It's a departure from the truth. I know that there are things that would harm me, but most are just inhuman, and that provokes a primal sense of caution. I walk quickly, more urgently than I'd like to, up the porch steps to fumble the key into the front door. My entrance is not a sigh of relief that I'd hoped for, as all 150 years of this house seemed to yawn before me. My mind sees shadows slink under the furniture and I remember the ghosts I encountered here as a child. The boy in brown britches and a white shirt, chasing a red ball straight through the wall. The blue-tinged woman in a long pale shift watching over me after a nightmare. The mischievous spirit that stops fully wound clocks on significant days. I take a breath, remind myself to be polite, and call a soft hello to the house. The cat looks at me perhaps a little disdainfully and stalks into the dark kitchen. I follow, turning on the large light over the kitchen table, and feel rather than hear the rustle of movement all through the second floor as reflections of light bounce up the stairs. This is not the newly constructed and sterile world I've grown used to. This is a place where lives have been lived and souls have passed on. I find myself remembering superstitions and jumping at odd creeks and burbling pipes. I glance out the window where the velvet country night presses gently on the glass, and I suddenly understand why my mother always draws the curtains after dark.”
AMANDA: That's not the spine-chilling one?
JULIA: A little optional context to the story, “I grew up and still live in a small town in New Hampshire in a house originally built in the 1860s."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "There are neighbors on both sides, but there's a decent buffer of trees and overgrown bushes between our yard and theirs. I moved back into the house a couple of years ago after the visit that inspired me to write this. The clock still sometimes stopped when they have no reason to, and I still greet the house when I enter. Remember, it's creepy and cool to be polite to old houses, Scorpio.”
AMANDA: Scorpio, that was absolutely incredible writing. Thank you so much. And I think— I think I'm ready for the spine-chilling one, because that was a great appetizer.
JULIA: Well, if ze is ready for it, then we can definitely— hopefully see it sometime in the future.
AMANDA: Yes, on their own time, you know, scale here, but I'm very excited when we get that.
JULIA: Yes. I am as well. Amanda, thank you for embarking on this creepy cool journey with me. Lots of nightmares, lots of ghosts in dreams. Oh, boy. Spooky— spooky, scary stuff.
AMANDA: Spooky, scary, you'll love to hear it. Something about the summer months makes me really yearn for a creepy story.
JULIA: It's that campfire nostalgia feeling, right?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: You want to tell ghost stories around the campfire.
AMANDA: Always. Well, Julia, next time you are on the campfire and you hear some suspicious creaking in the woods, remember—
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: —stay cool.
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