Episode 49: La Lechuza
/#Creeptober might be over, but that doesn’t mean we’re done telling scary stories. Driving along the dark highways on the border of the United States and Mexico, keep your eye on the sky. You never know when La Lechuza will swoop down out of the darkness. We also chat about the evils of colonialism, the transfer of matter in magic, pitch a horrifying spin off to Spirits, and tell more owl stories from around the world.
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Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 49: La Lechuza.
JS: I'm gonna say, right at the top here, my pronunciation was pretty good at the beginning. It dissolved into nonsense by the end and I apologize, because it was bad.
AM: I think it is sometimes lost on people that we are actually drinking --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- while we record these episodes.
JS: Oh – and it just – I just lose it.
AM: And we also just like to play off each other's energy and just get kind of silly as time goes on or just get really wrapped up in the story and like pronunciation, you know, isn't our key priority.
JS: It becomes secondary.
AM: Yeah. So, like if it – if it hurts your heart that we mispronounce words from languages that you speak, I'm very sorry. I also don't want to know about it on Twitter.
JS: Yeah. Sorry.
AM: Sorry.
JS: My bad. Sorry. But you know who never complains about pronunciation on Twitter?
AM: Who?
JS: Our wonderful patrons.
AM: Oh, they sure don't, and they're the absolute best. We want to welcome our newest additions to our patron family: Jonathan, Jay, Kevin, Rachel, Katrina, Elliott, Adam, Nerys, and Brian.
JS: You guys are wonderful. Thank you for joining the team. I hope a giant owl doesn't come and get you in the night.
AM: Or, if it does, it's like avenging you --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- and destroying your enemies.
JS: Yes, ideally.
AM: I also hope that mythical creatures destroy the enemies of our supporting producer-level patrons.
JS: That's a good segue.
AM: Thank you. Catherine, Charles, Debra, Kimmo, MCF, Sandra, Ryan, Phil, Robert, Zoe, Eeyore, Lindsey, Sara, Julie, Dylan, Philip, Chandra, DDLG, Neal, and Kristina as well as our legend patrons: LeAnn, Cassie, Cammie, Shannon, Erin, and Ashley. We'll be mailing out their first box of physical stuff in like two days.
JS: You guys are birds of a feather. And we're glad you stick together with us.
AM: Julia.
JS: That;'s really cute.
AM: Did you come up with that on the fly?
JS: Yes, I did
AM: Hey.
JS: Hey. Oh.
AM: Double bird pun.
JS: We're such moms.
AM: You just looked so disappointed in your eyes at me.
JS: A little bit.
AM: Well, we are also brought to you this week by Storyblocks, which is the place you go for low cost really, really high quality stock images, videos, audio; all of it.
JS: You can go to storyblocks.com/spirits for a free seven-day trial. That's storyblocks.com/spirits.
AM: And, Julia, this episode, you can tell that I was drinking gin, because I was cursing a lot.
JS: You got real cussy.
AM: I did. And --
JS: Like a – like a sailor in the Gulf of Mexico.
AM: On the open seas of the desert plains.
JS: Not – nope. Okay. I was drinking Mezcal, because I'm always on brand.
AM: Yeah. And it's something that I really got – gotten a taste for in, in recent months. Shout out to our second favorite bartender, Matt Colley, who really made this beautiful like hibiscus mezcal drink. Oh, my god, it’s so good.
JS: It's gorgeous. It's on our Instagram.
AM: So, good. And we also want to share with you the very exciting news, again, that we are going to be at PodCon in Seattle December 8th, 9th and 10th I think it is. And both of us are gonna be on two panels --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- which is very exciting.
JS: Luckily, they didn't separate us for any panel. So, it's just gonna be Amanda and I rocking out in the panel world. We have one on Saturday --
AM: Yes.
JS: -- which is a panel about going from fan to creator in audio drama communities.
AM: Yeah. And podcasting in general, what it's like to be a fan of stuff, and then become a creator with fans yourself, and that particular, you know, beautiful thing, and the challenges and, and all of the above. It's gonna be great.
JS: Amanda's moderating that panel actually.
AM: I'm an excellent moderator, y'all.
JS: You are. You're fantastic.
AM: I'm, I'm --
JS: You ask all those hard hitting questions.
AM: I'm not great at many things. Panel moderation, not one of them.
JS: All right. That was a double negative, but I love it. And then, on Sunday, we'll be doing our panel on monetization, community building, and much, much more.
AM: Social media, all of it with a friend of the show and Join the Party Pod co-producer Eric Silver. It is going to be a good, good time.
JS: Yeah. It's gonna be great. And you guys should definitely come hang out with us, because PodCon is gonna be lit.
AM: And we will be having a meetup during that week on the 9th and the 10th. We already have had a couple of suggestions on Twitter for places. One of which is actually haunted. Someone recommended a haunted bar in Seattle.
JS: Bless you. I don't know who this person was. I forget their name right now. But god bless you for suggesting that.
AM: We're so happy. And, if you have, have additional suggestions near the Convention Center in Seattle of places to hold our meetup preferably with ghosts, we are down for it.
JS: We would love to see you all there and have a drink or two with you or more.
AM: And, if you want to attend PodCon or to attend it virtually, you can virtually attend from your home that weekend and stream our panels and ask questions.
JS: That's so cool.
AM: You can do so at podcon.com.
JS: Yeah. And we'll be posting on Instagram and Twitter all weekend long so you guys can stay in the loop even if you're not, physically, in Seattle.
AM: Yeah. We're gonna have a lot of fun. And I think that's all, Jules, right?
JS: Yeah. That's it.
AM: All right, y'all. Enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 49: La Lechuza.
Intro Music.
JS: Imagine, for a moment, Amanda, that it's late one night. You're driving along a highway in the desert, somewhere near the border of the US and Mexico. There's a big full moon, but, other than that, it's dark. There's no street lamps or something like that. On the horizon, the moon has turned everything into Shades of Grey. You think you're alone on the road, when suddenly, something spreads its wings creating a shadow between you and the moon. It is large, dark, and menacing and faster than the car you are driving. It begins circling your car, diving before swooping back up. And then your car goes dead. It slows, and you stop in the middle of the road. The bird is gone, but you're alone, without a car, stuck in the middle of nowhere.
AM: Oh, my god.
JS: And that Amanda is a common story when it comes to La Lechuza.
AM: Oh, my god, I want to know so much more.
JS: Okay. Good. We're gonna get in there.
AM: That's such an image.
JS: It's a good image, right? It's a great story. It gave me chills a little bit when I started reading kind of these retellings.
AM: I have chills right now, which is great because I have the gin sweats. So, it's a nice – it's a nice little comparison.
JS: I like that though. Oh, god. It's so – it's so cool. So, let's really get into it. But that's the imagery I want you to kind of keep in mind as we get into it.
AM: It is firmly in my mind. Don’t you worry.
JS: So, La Lechuza is a spirit that has become a frightening folk tale for Mexico in South Texas for a number of years. I think the earliest story that I could find dates back to 1953 --
AM: Wow.
JS: -- like of real retellings, but really the mythology of it dates back much further to about the times of colonization.
AM: Okay.
JS: In some legends, La Lechuza are demons. In others, they are bruja or witches that transform themselves into birds.
AM: And is that a tradition of bruja like throughout time? Or, is it specific sort of like, you know – you know, like how we think about witches that transform into crows, or cats, or something?
JS: Yeah.
AM: Is that a similar type thing?
JS: Yes, it is. Actually, we'll talk a little bit towards the end about sort of the universality of this story.
AM: All right.
JS: But, in this particular instance, it is a type of bruja. And we'll talk a little bit more about that, because there's more of a specific version of it --
AM: All right. Let's do it.
JS: -- that becomes La Lechuza. So, specifically, they tend to turn into owls, though some stories note that eagles are also connected to La Lechuza. Another school of thought are La Lechuzas are not necessarily brujas, but rather the spirits of women who died with grievances, such as a faithless husband or they were a widower who then remarries. And the bruja is not about that or the La Lechuza is not about it.
AM: I – you know that I love me some grudge keeping you tied to this Earth type situation.
JS: I do too.
AM: Yeah.
JS: I love a good grudge.
AM: Love a good grudge.
JS: As we talked about in our seductress episode, love a good grudge.
AM: Yeah. No. Nothing, nothing gets me better than I am so mad at you that I literally beat death to be here.
JS: I'm all about it. I turned into a giant owl just to fuck with your shit.
AM: Yeah. Tthere are worse ways to fuck with your shit.
JS: That is true. So, these birds can be huge. Depending on the story, they can be anywhere from the size of a small human to about seven feet tall with a wingspan of 15 feet.
AM: So, a large human.
JS: Well, yes. But also 15 feet. If I stick my hands out, that's like maybe four. That's maybe four feet.
AM: Did you know that your hand span – like the – or whatever, arm span, whatever you call that, wingspan is roughly as long as you are tall.
JS: Okay.
AM: So, about five feet.
JS: So, this is about five feet --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- if I spread my arms.
AM: Mine is about six.
JS: But 15 feet wingspan.
AM: That's very big.
JS: Just imagine how – that's as big as the room we're in I think --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- probably width wise. Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, big ass owls is basically what I'm trying to say.
AM: Yep.
JS: They usually have the appearance of large barn owls, which are my favorite type of owl.
AM: Mine too.
JS: If I, if I went to Hogwarts, I would have a barn owl.
AM: Mine too.
JS: Okay.
AM: They're like big and kind of normal looking, but probably have more depth to them than you expect.
JS: They have pretty faces.
AM: They do have pretty faces. Yeah.
JS: Just like moon faces. Yeah.
AM: Yeah. They’re pretty.
JS: But some stories say that it has – it's a large owl, but it has the face of an elderly woman. I know your favorite thing. Amanda's favorite thing.
AM: Nooo!
JS: I literally pick out stories just with animals with human features.
AM: Did you just Google --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- disturbing animal mashups?
JS: Yes.
AM: And that's what this podcast is now?
JS: Basically.
AM: Thanks.
JS: You're welcome. So, I'm gonna give a little bit of background as to what a bruja is.
AM: Okay.
JS: Because I feel as though it just needs to be specified given the connection to the story.
AM: All right.
JS: So, a bruja is specifically a female witch, a brujo is the male version.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, this clarifies that La Lechuza is always female if we're not going off of the fact that it is a feminine noun when we're talking about it.
AM: Yeah. But sometimes that doesn't always mean the same thing.
JS: Right. But this specifically is a female spirit.
AM: Yeah.
JS: It is a woman. It is something of that sort. So, bruja, in mainstream culture, is very similar to what we see with traditional witches. So, the evil crone, the murderous seductress, that sort of thing.
AM: Yeah. So, like a cauldron of stuff, witchcraft, hexes, that kind of thing.
JS: Right. Usually affiliated with afflictions or misfortune, that sort of thing.
AM: Yeah.
JS: But, honestly, this association was perpetrated by Catholic colonizers. They were trying to demonize indigenous religious practices, which were usually focused around female healers.
AM: Sounds like the opposite of Lol, it’s not pagan, it's fine, which is Lol, it's not Catholic, it's evil.
JS: Yes, basically. Basically, that's the thing.
AM: Come on, y'all.
JS: It's just something like a white man nonsense.
AM: Come on y'all.
JS: This is basically what it comes down to.
AM: Come on.
JS: So, of course, modern interpretations to libro de brujeria through a feminist lens, which, yay, that's basically what this podcast is at this point.
AM: Shout out to all the Wiccans, and witches, and Pagans who listen to Spirits.
JS: And Brujas.
AM: Y'all are awesome. And, if there are any brujas listening to us or brujos, like please get in touch.
JS: Right. And, so, these groups really embrace the sexuality, spirituality, and leadership of women that were intended to be wiped out by colonizers.
AM: Hell yeah. Bring it back.
JS: I know.
AM: Rescue it.
JS: Seriously. It's, it's real good.
AM: Put yourself back in the narrative.
JS: Yes. The opposite of what I guess she does at the end.
AM: Eliza.
JS: Yeah. Yeah. Eliza.
AM: Yeah.
JS: I need to give you a look. I'm just like it’s not Angelica. I just can't remember the other one.
AM: Yeah. No. She does. And my favorite thing is the, the name in Hamilton doesn't have to be about Alexander.
JS: Yes.
AM: It can be about Eliza, who survived to tell the story.
JS: That is true.
AM: Yes.
JS: She's the best.
AM: Or, the hottest Hamilton, Philip.
JS: Fair enough. All right.
AM: A lot to understand, people.
JS: Okay. La Lechuza. La Lechuza is said to appear outside houses, during domestic quarrels, waiting for one of the people involved to wander out of the house. In most stories, it is the person who is the abuser or who instigated the fight. And then snatches them up and takes them back to its lair to devour.
AM: Oh, my god. Thank you.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Someone should. Uh, that is like so viscerally a thing that you would want to happen, right?
JS: Yeah.
AM: For like you to be in a situation where you can't leave and then the person abusing the power in the situation is able to walk out, and you just know that that's not available to you. And like how incredible it would be if they never entered that door?
JS: Yeah, seriously. I just wanna raise my glass with Mezcal.
AM: Raise my glass. Yes.
JS: And say, “Hell yeah,” to that.
AM: Hell yes.
JS: Another story about La Lechuza mentions that, when you feel most secure in your house, La Lechuza will make crying sounds like a baby in need trying to lure you out of the house.
AM: Oh, boy. Wait. Umm. Huh.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Because it seems like people only – like it seems like only those with a kind of like instinct to protect the vulnerable would go after that, right?
JS: Yeah.
AM: So, are they not always like fighting for justice?
JS: No, not always.
AM: So, they’re sometimes just like there to lure you.
JS: There chaotic neutral. Let's go with that. La Lechuza is always very chaotic neutral.
AM: Makes sense.
JS: It's also been known to make a whistling sound, like human whistling.
AM: Huh.
JS: And, if you answer back with your own whistle, La Lechuza will use it to locate you and then swoop down and carry you away.
AM: Oh, my god. Guys, never whistled to an unknown whistler.
JS: Yeah, don't do it.
AM: Never.
JS: That's just – it's bad. It's like taking cat calling to an extreme.
AM: Practice safe whistling. Only whistle at people that you trust and know.
JS: Okay. That's good. It sounds good. If you wake up in the morning and see scratches at your door or window sills, it means La Lechuza was there and was trying to get in to get you
AM: Or your cat, you know, marked your house and another cat came by.
JS: No. La Lechuza.
AM: I mean that is scary though.
JS: I mean yeah.
AM: Like viscerally scary.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Those like, you know, claw marks at the lock. Like, no, no thank you. No, thank you.
JS: That's not good. That's not a bad image. Basically, everything is creepy about La Lechuza, except for that domestic violence thing.
AM: I like that as a – you know, an application of creepiness for a good goal.
JS: Fair enough.
AM: But this, in general, reminds me of kind of Irish Fae, an Irish Fairy lore --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- which is that like fairies are just kind of always coming to fuck with you, unless you're able to like enter into an agreement with them. And, sometimes, fairies will, will do things that are good, but it's almost like an accident or, or just like a happy circumstance or someone who has like appeased them well throughout their lifetime. So, leaving like bread and milk for the fairies. Like that's just something that you do. You know, don't go out at night. Don't look at the windows at night. Like fairies are just always out there, you know, to play with humans.
JS: Is it because we're trying to appease them because we're technically on their land?
AM: Yes. That – yes, that's it.
JS: That's, that's a good theme to think about this episode in.
AM: Oh, okay.
JS: La Lechuza can be warded off if you're not into the whole demon, witches, or spirit thing.
AM: Okay.
JS: You know, some people aren't. That's okay. I would personally --
AM: You’re not.
JS: -- love La Lechuza --
AM: But whatever.
JS: Just hanging around. Whatever. Prayer is the obvious one, because that's the sort of thing you do. And it works against evil spirits.
AM: Uhmmm.
JS: Tying seven knots in a string or rope and then spreading it across your doorway will help stop her from entering your home.
AM: Hmm.
JS: You could hire a curandera, which is a medicine woman, healer, or someone who uses folk remedies. They may recommend carrying around a combination of salt and chili powder, which can be used to throw in the face of La Lechuza and then repel it.
AM: That sounds awesome and would hurt if you get it in your eyes.
JS: It's like – it's like powdered pepper spray.
AM: I, yes, that's exactly what that is.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And is that so much more effective than garlic in vampires?
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like that, I just never got because like, “Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm gonna like bite this and have healing properties and like cure my, my yeast infection. Like I'm so sorry.”
JS: That was gross. Thank you for that. But I guess --
AM: Listen, garlic, y'all.
JS: -- I guess chili powder in a way – I mean it's native to the area.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Whereas, garlic was native to Europe at the time.
AM: I suppose. I'm just saying that like, like --
JS: Just pick the most offensive thing.
AM: -- if someone – but like, if someone throws a bulb of garlic in your face is what I'm saying. Like you're gonna say, “Oh, fuck you.” But, if someone – I'm drinking gin. I'm sorry. I'm cursing a lot.
JS: I love it.
AM: But, if someone throws salt and chili pepper in your eyes, like that is gonna hurt no matter what.
JS: Yes.
AM: I'm just saying like it feels just viscerally more damaging than garlic ever did to me.
JS: To be fair though, Europeans are not good at spicing things. So, I feel as though garlic is the most offensive spice that one could throw at an evil demon.
AM: No. My people can spice.
JS: Whereas, chili powder is more offensive and more like damaging.
AM: Yeah. I mean they could have used salt with vampires. It seems like, if you just like dry all the water out of them, they're gonna be dead.
JS: Well, the Europeans would use salt for demons. Warding off demons --
AM: That's true.
JS: -- you could just put salt across your door. And that would stop a demon from coming in.
AM: Point being this, this chili pepper salt combo, excellent.
JS: It is a solid choice.
AM: Also, sprinkle that over any roasted vegetable, and you're gonna elevate your game.
JS: Or just on a chicken would be really good.
AM: On chicken. On corn. Uh!
JS: Some nice steak.
AM: Oh, wait. Can we get Mexican corn after this?
JS: Yeah, we can. I'm so hungry now.
AM: Yum.
JS: Okay. And, Amanda, if none of these other things work, you could always blast the bird with a shotgun or a rifle.
AM: I mean always a good last, last ditch effort type.
JS: I mean yeah. So, what happens when you shoot La Lechuza is that no one can find the dead bird.
AM: Ooh.
JS: But, the next morning, someone will discover the body of an elderly woman hanging across a tree branch. You know, the typical thing that happens.
AM: I like that though. Like the, the conservation of matter when it comes to killing demons really interests me. Like I love books of magic, where magic is like very elemental, and physical, and chemical, and requires actually like sacrificing stuff, giving stuff. The Dresden Files, which is a semi problematic series of like crime detective novels --
JS: Sure.
AM: -- is really good at just emphasizing how much like the transference of energy has to do with magic. Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, the novel, is also good at that. But, anyway, I love that there has to be a body or that the fact of transformation has to be dealt with when you're talking about the death of the thing.
JS: Right. And they handle that a lot with werewolf stories, too.
AM: They do.
JS: Where if you shoot a werewolf, you'll just find the body of the person who was the werewolf.
AM: Like we talked about last time. Yeah.
JS: Yeah, exactly. So, kind of a side note, but I, I love when evil spirits can be dealt with so easily.
AM: Shoot it like you would a rabid dog.
JS: Yeah, exactly. And this creates a really fascinating concept of adaptability in mythology. What happens when a creature is no longer a threat due to the adaptation of new technology? So, one of the – one of the books that we read in high school about colonization and all of that was Guns, Germs, and Steel.
AM: We sure did by Jared Diamond.
JS: Do you remember that? Okay.
AM: Yeah.
JS: It's interesting when you add guns to a story that predates guns, because suddenly a creature that is monstrous but not immortal becomes not as big a threat.
AM: Right. Because your capabilities expand and I guess, instead of just the myth expanding infinitely, to have the same like ratio of scariness to people. In some cases, the, the tech outweighs the, the threat.
JS: Yeah. And it's, it's really interesting to me, I just think that it's one of those instances where mythology can't quite adapt with technology --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- as it – as we move to the future.
AM: Yeah. And like an, an embodied thing you can deal with. We talked about this in our episode on cults, where like the ability that we have to talk to each other and to relate to our outside world like directly impacts the mythology that we choose to, to propagate and to keep alive. And, so, I love that this myth didn't just fall out of existence or grow into a kind of really diffuse and vague thing like Fae lore does in Ireland.
JS: Yeah.
AM: But this specifically is – you know, is reacting to the situation around it. And, in this case, rarely, you know, humans come out on top.
JS: Yeah. And it's really interesting, because it creates this shift in the power dynamic.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Which you don't often see in mythology. You, honestly, don't.
AM: Yeah.
JS: You deal a lot with supernatural beings, who, regardless of our technological advances, remain a higher power.
AM: Yep.
JS: And it's, it's really interesting. So, when I was telling you the story earlier, we kind of talked a little bit about how La Lechuza is able to drain the car of energy.
AM: That's so amazing.
JS: And that, definitively, is a part of the story that adapts old legends. And creates it to work in a legend that is now technologically advanced.
AM: I love that so much. And it's one of the reasons that we both love American Gods so much.
JS: Yes.
AM: It’s because it is – it is 100 percent about putting ancient things in a contemporary context in a way that isn't like kitschy, you know.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Or, or just there for kicks. Like it's, it's really genuine. You know, it's genuine in asking what would these gods be doing now, which would be empowered, which will be disempowered. And, and I, I really love that this myth spans such an interesting time period, where it was like something. And like we see this over and over again, where it's something that makes sense and is established and is complex. That is then either erased, appropriated, or simplified by colonizers and, normally, then either like fizzles out or lives on in a kind of like, you know, fusion form.
JS: Yeah.
AM: But, in this case, I don't know. It's just – it's cool to like – to see stuff be firmly in a time period and to like firmly take a stand when it comes to change.
JS: Yeah. I super like it. I'm glad – I'm glad we went on this tangent a little bit, because, honestly, it's, it's one of the coolest aspects of this myth in my opinion.
AM: It reminds me of librarians becoming fucking badass information technologists.
JS: Hell yeah.
AM: Just like that – like librarians are in the information business, and information includes computers right now.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And so many libraries are doing so many cool things when it comes to like software engineering, you know, metadata, like information architecture.
JS: Coding.
AM: Kind of all this amazing stuff.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah. Go librarians.
JS: Go librarians.
AM: This is a pro librarians podcast.
JS: We are definitely pro librarians. Thank you for all your hard service.
AM: Thank you so much.
Midroll Music.
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JS: So, a little bit more on La Lechuza.
AM: If we must stop talking about librarians, we can do this.
JS: Yeah, I guess we have to. So, La Lechuza is known to be associated with spell casting since it has an association with brujas. In particular, her ability is to summon storms.
AM: Hmm.
JS: Oftentimes, La Lechuza is seen in thunderstorms, which is really a terrifying image. Imagine a giant bird --
AM: No, thank you.
JS: -- swooping in and out of thunder.
AM: Nope.
JS: Enlightening. It's gorgeous.
AM: Don't want that.
JS: I love that.
AM: Don't want that.
JS: Because of their half human, half bird nature, they're similar to quite a few myths from around the world.
AM: Okay.
JS: For example, the Harpies, which are eventual bird women from Greek mythology.
AM: Hell yeah.
JS: La Lechuza is said to cry outside of the homes of people and is an omen for – that someone in the household will die.
AM: Like the Banshee.
JS: Exactly, like the Banshee.
AM: Nice.
JS: Interestingly, the Romans believe something similar that the hoot of an owl will indicate the imminent death of those who hear it. And that the hoot of an owl predicted many famous deaths including Julius Caesar and Augustus.
AM: Two things here. One, is that tied to owls being associated with Minerva, goddess of knowledge?
JS: I don't think so. Not necessarily in this case.
AM: Because it is like for knowledge of a death.
JS: Right, absolutely. But I don't think – I don't believe that Minerva had divination skills.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Like that wasn't what was associated with her.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Knowledge is one thing, but divine knowledge and seeing the future was not.
AM: Gotcha. Interesting. And, number two, we are big fans into the podcast., Oh no, Ross and Carrie! --
JS: So good.
AM: -- where two buds --
JS: I knew you were gonna bring this up, but I'm so excited.
AM: -- where two buds explore fringe --
JS: Science and paranormal.
AM: -- movement in science, the paranormal, and then report back. And what I love is that they really approach everything with the kind of open heart, open mind. Like this could be totally true, whether it's like Scientology, Mormonism, like fringe science stuff, anti-vaxxers or, this summer, they are doing a Summer of UFOs.
JS: It's so good.
AM: And man, oh, man, they went to a bunch of UFO conferences. One of them, they describe a lecture on owls that, honestly, I have re-listened to about three times.
JS: It's so good.
AM: It’s like the description is so good, and funny, and lovely, and pure. So, Oh No, Ross and Carrie! check it out.
JS: Really, really an excellent show. Just so good.
AM: We want to be friends with them. Guys, you're welcome on the show anytime.
JS: Further up north in the United States, similar shape sightings like the Mothman had been seen in the northeastern US.
AM: Okay.
JS: Honestly, the concept of flying humanoids whether they're human, part human, monsters, humanoids what have you, has been around over 17,000 years. So, we can carbon date images of birds-like humans in cave paintings in Lascaux, France, which are known as the Bird of Lascaux that date back 17,000 years.
AM: What?
JS: Isn't that cool?
AM: Julia, nothing gets me more than cave paintings. Damn.
JS: I'm gonna link to them in the show notes, but it's gonna be really good.
AM: Nothing gets me more than thinking about like ancient humans having spiritual and documentary experiences in caves. Like it, it freaking messes with my stuff. But I mean everything from angels to Jinn in Islam to, you know, witches which are said to fly.
JS: The story of Icarus?
AM: Absolutely. Just the idea, oh, no, something about humans being able to escape the bound of gravity is, is – I don't know. Like it must be divine, right?
JS: It's a – it's a very human thing.
AM: Yeah.
JS: We've always wanted – we've seen birds flying. We're just like, “Hey, I want to do that.”
AM: Yeah. I wonder if like the cult of a like venerating pilots. You know what I mean? Like, like the kind of like handsome sexy playboy.
JS: Everyone wants to sleep with the pilot thing. I know what you're talking about.
AM: Exactly. Like Catch Me If You Can style pilot veneration.
JS: Yeah.
AM: I wonder if that has to do a little bit with just wanting to, to be in charge of a machine that flies.
JS: So, you want some more owl stories?
AM: Yes, Julia. I want nothing more than some owl stories.
JS: So, the Hopi believed that the burrowing owl was the embodiment of their god of dead.
AM: Makes total sense. Digging in the ground. Yeah.
JS: The Inuit tell stories of how a beautiful young woman was magically transformed into an owl with a long beak.
AM: Okay.
JS: When she saw herself in a mirror or in the water or whatever, I'm not sure exactly which.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Probably not mirrors. She flew in – she was so startled by her appearance that she flew into a wall in her house, which is why owls have flat faces and short beaks.
AM: Oh, babe.
JS: It's kind of cute. I like owls. They're just cute faces.
AM: They do have cute faces. Very efficient faces. They don't stick out too much.
JS: Certain cultures believe that owls would bring illness or ill fortune to children. In Malaysia, it was believed that owls ate newborn babies.
AM: You know, there's just a lot of baby eating happening in, in Southeast Asia and the Pacific.
JS: Yeah, a little bit. The Swahili believe that owls brought sickness to children. And, across the Middle East, there were tales of how owls were evil spirits that would carry away children in the night.
AM: You know, lots of myths about carrying away children in the night and eating babies.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Unfortunately, that shit happened.
JS: Yeah. Do you want a good Wales one? I have a good Wales one.
AM: Oh, I thought you meant – I thought you meant whales --
JS: No.
AM: -- the animals, eating children. And I was like, “Whoa!”
JS: No.
AM: Like what situation is happening? A childs and a --
JS: I mean Wales.
AM: -- whale are in – are within like mouth reach of each other.
JS: I mean like Wales and like the Welsh people.
AM: Let's do it.
JS: Okay. So, it was believed that, if an owl is heard among houses, that means an unmarried woman had lost her virginity.
AM: Oh, my god.
JS: But, if a pregnant woman hears an owl in Wales, her child will be blessed.
AM: Wow. So, if you get pregnant from an out of wedlock encounter, you got that bad karma. You got that good karma. And pretty much you're okay.
JS: That's all. Thanks.
AM: Wow.
JS: So, Amanda, what do we think of La Lechuza?
AM: I think it's a pretty badass myth. I really love the, the kind of carry forward from something that, you know, predates colonialism, which fortunately or not is a kind of like, you know, point before which and after which we have to date stuff, you know.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like it's kind of like a watershed in a lot of ways for mythology.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And I, I love that it's survived in its own really distinct way. And I especially like that you started this episode with a really contemporary image. In fact, our mutual friend, Roy Graham, who I met in – at NYU, is a fabulous talented writer. And I read a manuscript of his of a sort of like apocalyptic type demon hunting novel. Uh, it’s so good. But he had this image of kind of driving down the highway toward almost certain death and just having that journey interrupted by some like primordial creature like rising from the darkness in like a glaze scale moonscape. Uh, I love it so much.
JS: I'm so glad you like this.
AM: Yes.
JS: I'm really interested in looking at the story through the lens of colonialism. Because, like you said, it is such a watershed moment in the history of this region.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And I'm just – I'm very interested in the adaptability of the myth.
AM: Sure.
JS: Because like we talked about earlier, earlier, when we were talking about the guns and then the electricity, you're taking a myth where it's about magic. And it's about spell casting. It's about thunderstorms and transforming into birds and stuff like that. And then you have to put that into a story that can adapt through time where suddenly we're driving down, you know, highways and cars. So, what does thunderstorms turn into? Thunderstorms turn into the ability to drain power out of cars. Much like we see in a lot of alien mythology and stuff like that.
AM: Right.
JS: And I just – I think it's kind of amazing and kind of beautiful, and rugged, and just like survivalist storytelling, where your story can live for centuries.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And still be terrifying people to these this day. It can still scare people from anywhere from Tijuana to San Antonio. You know what I mean?
AM: Absolutely.
JS: It's just – it's this gorgeous concept that mythology is still important. Mythology becomes folklore, becomes urban legends, becomes something that we still tell our kids. Like don't go out too late or else La Lechuza is gonna come get you.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And I just – I love that. This – that's the epitome of why I love mythology.
AM: Absolutely. And I really love how the particular evolution of this myth where La Lechuza was something that you had almost no control over. There were ways to ward it off, but, at a certain point, like you heard the cry of the owl, or you saw it, and, and kind of that was that. And like imagine the experience of, of a person in a colonized region, where, you know, folks sweep in with guns, and with technology, and with disease, and with riches, and political power, that, you know, was kind of unfathomable and probably mythical. And, and, you know, guns were a big part of that like you – like you said earlier. And I love that like that mechanism that allowed for the domination of a region ends up being a populace tool against the like chaotic unknown of La Lechuza. You know, like --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- the gun that was used to colonize ends up being a defense mechanism against the like wild unknown of the world.
JS: Yeah. And it's that gorgeous power shift. Like I was talking about earlier, suddenly, you know, pre-colonization, you have these demons and these humans. And they just have to fight each other. And they're, they're kind of vying for the top of the ladder.
AM: Yeah.
JS: You know what I mean? And then everything gets fucked when these colonizers come in.
AM: Yes.
JS: And, so --
AM: And, artificially, shift the dynamic that was otherwise fought with salts --
JS: Right.
AM: -- and knots and faith.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And prayer.
JS: And it's, it's this balance that suddenly there's an additional weight that's kind of in the middle. And it's, it's so interesting to me because, not only do these people adapt, but the myths adapt with them. And I think that's, that's the theme that I want to take away from colonialism. It’s that adaptability of both human beings and of mythology.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Because, if you are capable of adapting so that, suddenly, your bird demon is still a threat, even when these men come with guns, and disease, and all of that, that's, that's amazing. That's a human experience that, you know, we personally haven't had to go through. But that is an experience that is the definitive human historical experience. And it's kind of amazing and kind of painful to think about. But, in a way, it is awe inspiring. Not necessarily good or not necessarily bad, but all inspiring in a way.
AM: Awesome. Awful.
JS: Mm hmm.
AM: They, they go hand in hand.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That really is such a baseline of the human experience the idea of like you and your family and your tribe against the world, or you against appear, or another creature, whether that's, you know, a predator coming to get you or just an unknown entity and seeing that like instinctual dynamic mapped out against, you know, modern day technology.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And mapped against the like unfathomable chaos and pain of a violent takeover by a country you've never even heard of, you know, it's – it really is a like amazing testament to how human brains adapt and try to make sense of the world.
JS: And just survive, too.
AM: And just survive. Like, you know, stories of how we survive, how we make sense of the world, or how we make sense of ourselves and each other, and our legacy, and death, and the unknown. JS: Yeah.
AM: You know, like that's – this kind of stuff happens and comes up in every single episode for a reason. And it's because the human brain is better at narrativizing than anything else.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And like even patterns are narrative. Like patterns are, are a way that the brain, you know, puts several things in a space into some kind of relationship to each other.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And it just – it amazes me. Like the more I think about stories and I play out stories, and I, you know, write them, and read them, and edit them, like it is just remarkable to me that our – I don't know – that's just like an instinct and a skill, and a pleasure, and a pastime.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And an evil too. That human beings perpetrate and, and just do – like we breathe. Like it's, it's so natural to us. And, like we said in our episode, Lauma, it's dangerous to make yourself the protagonist all the time. You know, like it’s --
JS: Yes.
AM: And I think it's just helpful to keep in mind the fact that your brain wants to make stories and patterns out of everything. And just to recognize when that is happening.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And that's why I think I like the instance of La Lechuza going after abusers so much.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Because one of the like worst ways that domestic violence is, is instantiated is just a narrative of inescapability.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That, you know, is reinforced by abuse of all kinds and circumstance often. Like there's just no way to like leave when --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- you know, in, in so many situations. So, it – you know, it can be really empowering to realize that you narrative doesn't have to be what you think it is
JS: Right. And you don't have to rely on La Lechuza to come and swoop in and take your abuser away.
AM: There's a reason why that's a story.
JS: Yes.
AM: Because that is so out – like that is so desperately, I'm sure, hoped for if you’re in that situation.
JS: Yeah.
AM: But we also just wanted to mention that, if that brought up anything for anybody or if you feel like you're in a situation where you wish La Lechuza could come and take something, someone out of your life, there are resources for you. So, in the US you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-SAFE or 800-799-7233.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And you can also go to safehorizons.org, which has resources for the US as well as other countries.
JS: Yeah. So, I think that about wraps it up for La Lechuza. I think that, honestly, this is a great myth about just the durability and survival of humankind just as individuals, but also in their own cultures. And I think that there's a lot to learn from La Lechuza and just the story that keeps on going.
AM: Absolutely. So, with that, listeners, remember, stay safe, put seven knots above your doorway, carry some salt and cayenne. I mean that can never – that can never hurt. Unless, you throw it in the eyes of an attacker.Throw it with caution.
JS: Maybe that's what you're supposed to be doing though.
AM: Anyway, remember to --
JS: Stay creepy.
AM: Stay cool.
Outro Music.
AM: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
JS: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us on Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook and Instagram @SpiritsPodcast. We also have all our episodes, collaborations, and guest appearances, plus merch on our website spiritspodcast.com.
AM: Come on over to our Patreon page, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind the scenes stuff. Throw us as little as $1 and get access to audio extras, recipe cards, directors commentaries, and patron-only live streams
JS: And, hey, if you like the show, please share us with your friends. That is the best way to help us keep on growing.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, till next time
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil